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Elfëa
12-16-2002, 06:37 PM
I've been "researching" (spending time in the library when I've been supposed to study) this some and I'm copying some of my note posts from KD here, I do hope anyone won't mind :o
My apologies to those who read that thread in KD. But I feel there's much people here who don't read it...

Animals
Cat
Cats have different significancies in different beliefs - in Egypt it was a sacred animal. Many mythologies believe that cats bear the souls of the dead. It's also traditional enemy of the serpent. Greek/Roman Goddess (of hunting) Artemis/Diana turned to cat. Cats are said the have physic abilities.

Cats do indeed have significance in HPs. They are not sacred, but they're important - Mrs. Norris seems to have abilities that are more than a cat should have. I don't think myth/belief of bearing the souls of the dead has influenced Rowling anyway with cats, but the cat being traditional enemy of the serpent makes me think that cats "belong" to Gryffindor, because the sign of Slytherin is serpent.

Owl
The connections between mythology and owls is old. Commonly old legends/stories connect owls with misery, death and ill omens. It's call is said to be sinister. Yet there are traces connecting owls with protection (okay, I won't go to examples here, it'll be too long post... ). It's commonly connected with witchcraft and sorcery:
The Yoruba of Nigeria believe that wizards sent out owls as their emissaries to kill people
"There's goes an owl" was the Athenian saying indicating signs of victory
in Greek mythology owl is a symbol of the Goddess Athene (wisdom, warfare)

I think Rowling choose owls to be messengers of wizards as owls are commonly thought to be connected with sorcery. Yet I believe she must have been familiar with the second quote
There is no sign of it's dual nature in the books, except for the duty of an messenger is always dual.

Phoenix
Phoenix is said to be about the size of an eagle, brilliantly colored - purple with golden collar or mixture of dazzling red, gold and blue. There is only one phoenix existing at the time. It's said that it lives 500(varies greatly) years, then builds a pyre of sweet spices and from the ashes borns a worm. It's duty is to take the ashes from the pyre to Heliopolis (Egypt). The story of Phoenix has been commecially influenced later on, originally first found in Greek texts - the story itself might Arabian/Egypt origin. (Or Middle-East). It's important animal, one of Sacred Creatures in Chinese mythology. Considered both lunar and solar. It's death song is of "rare beauty".

Now, it's not said in the books, but it can be implied that there are more than one phoenix in existence at the same time. :) I think JKR wouldn't have that much trouple to explain this - as we do not see the world of wizards.
There isn't that much new in this story. Except I didn't find a mention about it's tears - only that it's considered kind bird that only eats jew and doesn't chrush anything. Come to think of it, I don't think I found a reference to carrying heavy loads either - but that might be because my sources aren't that good. (I say good books about mythological animals are HARD to find)...

Serpent
In Greek mythology Asclepius, son of Apollo, is God of healing and founder of medicine. His symbol is snake. this I found rather interesting!In India, Hindu's have half-deities in the forms of serpents - Nagas.
In many folktales the Nagas are not evil but act beneficatly and female Naga or Nagini may often marry a mortal.
(the Nagas)...show that confrontation of dark against light, earth against sky need not always mean total war and the triumph of latter, but peacefull blending, assimilation...
Many mythologies consider the fact that snakes cast their skin every year important. Bestiaries (old Latin text about animals - magical and normal) says:
Most deadly was the Cockatrice, also known as the Basilisk, a smallserpent, scarecely six inches long... (emphasis mine)
Serpent is both solar and lunar - but I think it's more often considered lunar, only one of the books gave me solar...

hmm... Rowling's basilisk certainly isn't small :D
Now we know where Nagini comes from. Makes me wonder if Voldemort is married. ;) The dual nature of snakes surprises me - but actually gives rather nice idea - Voldemort/Snape. (Do I have to say more?)

Rat
in Hinduism [Rat] symbolises prudence and foresight and is the most powerful of the demons
Associated with death, plague and decay. Believed that rats desert a doomed ship/house that'll fall.

Rowling has nice allegory here with Pettigrew's true nature. Wonder how powerfull Peter will be in next book?

Stag
Many stories have humans transforming to stag/deer. Stags are hunted - A hunter who saw the Goddess of hunting, Artemis, bathing was turned to a stag and killed by his own hounds.

Hmm... wonder if Rowling is familiar with that story? Makes think dual reasons why was James Potter killed... ;)

Badger
lunar animal in Chinese mythology. Stout at heart, but not strong of will accrding the Zuni. Symbolizes sometimes aggressiveness, quick anger and attack. In Europe though clumsiness. Badger is also believed to be a weather prophet and a trickster.

The Lion
solar animal, considered to be the King of Beast, yet is often fooled by smaller and weaker beasts (folklore). Appears widely in mythology. Many of the hybrid animals (gryffin, chimaera) have bodies or heads of lions. Guardian animal.

Raven
Connected with prophecy and wisdom but also destruction and death, because the nature of the bird as a carrion eater. Bible references dual - protector yet evil. Also thought br familiar of witches. Many legends tell that ravens were once white. In Chinese mythology solar animal. Trickster animal.

Eagle
Often considered as a good bird and potrayed with a snake hanging from its talons. Gryffin has the wings of an eagle.
(sorry, headache, gotta cut this shorter...)
Does the Eagle owl belong to Draco? Or to his parents? Perhaps it could symbol power over serpent = "Slytherin nature"? :) (Don't I wish? :o)

Then to plants and trees...

Holly
Linked with evergreen ivy and associated with Christmas - rest of it considered ivy and I was dissapointed.

Harry's wand is made of holly. (duh. you knew that, didn't you?) Next library trip - mythological plants.

Lily
In older meaning lily represents power against evil and was used against withces and their spells. Later a symbol of Virgin and of motherhood and fertility.
In Crete, where representations of the lily are frequent in pottery :D
If man treads upone a lily, he endangeres the purity of his wife and daughters (emphasis mine)

Now again, nice allegory (I do hope I know what I mean by that :o). The first quote cracked me up.

Oak
considered to be strong, durable and longlived.
Romans who saved the life of and fellow citizen were granted an oak leaf crown

Hagrid's wand is made of oak. What was Ron's new wand made of? (willow?) What is Hermione's wand made of? What was Harry's parents wands made of? (I can't remember.)

Ash
Gree and Nordic myths relate ash with birth of mankind. Believed to be pretection against withcraft. Ash is associated with snakes and it's believed that drinking ash sap will cure a snake bite as carrying ash twigs/leaves will shield you from one. I think it was especially with small children.

Cedric's wand was made of ash, but it didn't save him from the Snake Lord...

Willow
Willow's a traditional emblem of grief, melancholy and forsaken love. There is an association between willow and death. The willows on Chinese cementaries represent immortality. It's (in chinese mythology, I think from my unclear notes. Sorry.) believed to be magical tree and capable to avert harm and illness.
In Ireland willow pussy charms against enchantment.

Ron's new wand is made of willow... well, lets say it makes me think he's chances to make out alive from all the books is rather uncertain... Also Lily Potter's wand was made of willow...

Myrtle
Evergreen tree, symbol of end of old life and begining of new one. Connected with death and ressurrection.
Moaning Myrtle... LOL.

Poppy
Symbol of sleep, death and the soothing of pain, because it yields opium.

Wheats and poppies growing together stand for life and death

Yew
Evergreen tree, symbol of life after death and immortality. Prized for making bows, during Middle Ages consecrated yew was worthy. It's unlucky to bring yew brances inside the house. Shakespeare refers yew as "douple-fatal" (Richard II); it's a malign tree- it's foliage is poisoneus.
Among the most potent of trees for protection against evilemphasis mine once again
lives to an immense age for it can continue to grow with completely hollow centre

I was rather surprised the fact that I found about the serpent and now this - yew. It was not as bad expected. So I'm drawn to two conclusions - it doesn't mean anything or Rowling picked only little meanings from mythology.
I find the idea of yew living to immense age and having hallow centre rather interesting - it has no heart. It's surface is poisoneus... yet is a protection against evil?

more? ;)

Colli
12-16-2002, 08:29 PM
Thanks for posting this here! It's about time... ;)

Pilgrim Grey
12-16-2002, 11:21 PM
How, that's pretty in-depth. I'm impressed :) I think it's cool how JKR actually bothered to give her names some meaning other than just make up some wizard-sounding names...

Elfëa
12-17-2002, 08:30 AM
Originally posted by Colli
Thanks for posting this here! It's about time... ;)

I know...

but I've been too busy...


reading fanfics :o

Colli
12-17-2002, 03:47 PM
:D And what about the 7th son theory?

Elfëa
12-19-2002, 06:30 PM
Deleted my previous post, there was nothing important in it :p

Hmmm some reading in the library again today - all the books I found about colors and theirs symbolism were in the wrong library... (again)

Some things and what they're symbolled by:

Immortality:
Serpent - the guardian of the spring of life and the superior riches of the spirit. Also yew, lily, myrtle, rowan, stag...

Willow - abandonment Lily Potter's wand was of willow - I saw willow mentioned somewhere else, but I just cannot remember where, and it looks that I didn't write it down :trout:

Myrtle - everlasting love who's Myrtle in love with? ;)

Action in heradly presented by both eagle and horse combination of these two is Hippogriff...

Betrayal - RAT; silver as payment; St. Peter Well, well, well... what a coincidence? ;)

Wolfsbane represents illicit love... hmm... :eek: (No, don't think what I'm thinking :o)

Loyalty, Fidelity - dog, Hanged Man (tarot) Brings in mind Sirius...

Adultery is symboled by centaurs... "the sin of adultery"
Dunno where that comes from, found it just fascinating :D

The symbol of seventh son in heraldly is rose :) - seventh son of seventh son would have two roses :p (no, that's not the seventh son theory)

Thoughts, Ideas?

Colli
12-20-2002, 01:43 AM
Wolfsbane represents illicit love... hmm... :eek: (No, don't think what I'm thinking :o)

The symbol of seventh son in heraldly is rose :) - seventh son of seventh son would have two roses :p (no, that's not the seventh son theory)



Wolfsbane represents illicit love... hmm... :eek: (No, don't think what I'm thinking :o)

Too late. :p :D

I think the other willow reference was Ron's new wand. I hope abandonment only refers to him and Scabbers..

I really must go to bed.. more later!

Elfëa
12-20-2002, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by Colli
Too late. :p :D

Yeah, I see - you must have liked it cause you quoted it twice :p

Hmm... looks at the paper she has, the facts that she once posted at KD

Wonder if the Villain Appriciaters are interested in the fact there's been a King in England called Lucius? :p

Pilgrim Grey
12-20-2002, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by Elfëa
Loyalty, Fidelity - dog, Hanged Man (tarot) Brings in mind Sirius...

Wasn't the Hanged Man the name of the pub in Voly's home town (from the start of GOF)? I always wondered about that name (it seemed a bit violent for the name of a pub)...

Seriphus
12-21-2002, 08:10 AM
Wasn't the Hanged Man the name of the pub in Voly's home town

Yes, you're right. And the village was called Little Hangleton. The villagers in the pub certainly didn't show much loyalty to Frank Bryce.

Elfëa
12-21-2002, 09:28 AM
Wow, I never thought of that :) Much better reasoning :p

wonders why

Just the dog and combination of Hanged Man made me think of Sirius. Hanged man as symboling his time in prison...

Pilgrim Grey
12-22-2002, 11:07 PM
Can anyone who knows Latin tell me what Caput Draconis means? It was the first password to get into the Griff. Common Room in PS...

Elfëa
12-26-2002, 06:25 AM
Hmm... too bad I left my Latin dictionary at my home in England, but I think - without the dictionary!- it means something like "without dragons"

Draconis is either genetive singular case
or
plurar dative or ablative case...

caput - well I don't actually know the word, but heard in some cases it's been used as "all has ended, there's none left, we're without"... but I don't know if it referes to italian version of the word.

I can check it when I go back home... there might be some online translators as well... :)

Colli
12-27-2002, 02:12 AM
According to this site (http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/certamen/capital2002.3.3.html), caput draconis means "head of a dragon".

Elfëa
12-27-2002, 09:57 AM
Must be so then :o

Draconis is a genetive case then :D
Caput must mean head :p (nominative case)

Rather interesting questions on the page Colli, I'm latin/greek mythology freak (as many might tell ;))

Colli
12-27-2002, 02:22 PM
Yeah. You gotta love Google searches. ;)