Questions that need to be answered, Harry Potter style

[Pilgrim Grey]

This is a thread for all those little things that you know are going to be important in the next three books, but can't quite figure out yet. For example:

Who was Grindelwald, the Dark Wizard that Dumbledore defeated?
Is there any connection between the vault that the PS was housed in (713) and Sirius' vault (712)(mentioned in POA)? You wouldn't think so, but they're only one number apart, and it seems odd that JKR would mention Sirius' vault number for no reason
Is Mrs Figg the same person as Arabella Figg?
What exactly does a 'Keeper of Keys' do (it can't have been ONLY for Harry's vault, because Hagrid says that he was Keeper of Keys for Hogwarts...)?
What is a 'Supreme Mugwump'? (Dumbledore is one...)


And of course there are other, more obvious things like Snape and the death-eaters, the house-elves at Hogwarts (GOF never concluded that storyline) and, for me at least, the biggest thing: something from one book is always carried over to the next book (Parselmouth from PS to COS; Azkaban and the Dementors from COS to POA etc.)

Some of these might be insignificant, but some of them HAVE to be concluded, so post here any questions that you want answered, or some speculation that might answer some of these questions...

[Seriphus]

Is Mrs Figg the same person as Arabella Figg?
JKR has confirmed that they are the same person.
Who was Grindelwald, the Dark Wizard that Dumbledore defeated? I think that suggests that even if/when Voldy is defeated there will still be new threats from dark wizards. I'm not sure whether mention of Grindelwald will feature in future books or whether writing about his defeat was a nod towards a parallel with muggle history (he was defeated in 1945).
Is there any connection between the vault that the PS was housed in (713) and Sirius' vault (712)(mentioned in POA)? You wouldn't think so, but they're only one number apart, and it seems odd that JKR would mention Sirius' vault number for no reason Sirius's vault number is actually 711, but close enough. :) There has to be a connexion. She wouldn't mention it for no reason. Maybe it points to Sirius being part of some important organisation- The Order of the Phoenix, perhaps? Interestingly, though, Harry's vault (So presumably James/Lily's vault?) is not next to 711 and 713, as they travel quite a long way from his to the one containing the P(S)S. I don't think we ever find out what his vault number is.
What exactly does a 'Keeper of Keys' do (it can't have been ONLY for Harry's vault, because Hagrid says that he was Keeper of Keys for Hogwarts...)? I'd never thought about that before. Maybe it's Keeper of the Keys for places in Hogwarts like the door to the third floor corridor.


Serphy

[Sheild Maiden]

J.k. has also mentioned that these are things that will be important
- Harry's eye color (green like his mother's, but what else?)
- THe fact that the Potter's hid in Godric's Hollow (as in Godric Gryffindor?)

Things that I want an answer to...
-why there was a twinkle in Dumbledore's eye when Harry told him that Voldemort could touch him?
-what was Severus's "great personal risk" when he turned spy for Dumbledore?

[amrael]

-what was Severus's "great personal risk" when he turned spy for Dumbledore?

Maybe because if Voldemort was to realize it he would be killed in a slow and very painful way next time he attended a meeting?

[Colli]

-why there was a twinkle in Dumbledore's eye when Harry told him that Voldemort could touch him?

We've speculated about this before... like maybe it means that Voldemort contains mortal blood.. and more importantly, Harry's mortal blood, and Dumbledore realized something that us normal people don't know, and that Voldie can be killed. And maybe it's some previous story or prophecy come true or fulfilled.

I can't wait to find out. :D

Here's an oldie but a goodie:

~ What was Trelawney's first real prediction?

[Seriphus]

Maybe because if Voldemort was to realize it he would be killed in a slow and very painful way next time he attended a meeting? :rotfl:

What was Trelawney's first real prediction?

And maybe it's some previous story or prophecy come true or fulfilled.


Possibly that a Potter would defeat Voldy?


~ Where will Harry visit that's been mentioned before in the books?

>Beauxbatons/Durmstrang?
>Godric's Hollow?
>Little Hangleton?
>The room filled with chamber-pots?
>Azkaban?
>Somewhere else?

[Sheild Maiden]

Originally posted by amrael
Maybe because if Voldemort was to realize it he would be killed in a slow and very painful way next time he attended a meeting?

I've thought about that , but it seems a bit obvious for J.K., also At the end of GoF it says something about Harry wondering what Snape's risk was, I think that his life would be an obvious enough risk that Harry would clue in to that.

[amrael]

Shield Maiden, I think there are two different 'risks' here. One is the risk Snape took when spying for Dumbledore in the first war against Voldemort. This is what I was talking about in my answer. The other one is the risk Snape is running in the mysterious task Dumbledore gave him at the end of GoF. I don't think it was spying again, as after the incident with Quirrell Voldemort knows for sure where Snape's true loyalties lie (at least we hope so ;) ).

But if it was not spying, then what????

[Ravenclaw]

I wrote a fic once, dealing with many of these questions... IE, what is the meaning of Grindewald, the significance of Harry's eye color, Dumbledore's twinkle about Voldie being able to touch Harry...

But I won't bore you with details because it's an impossible theory

Orriginally posted by Seriphus
...I'm not sure whether mention of Grindelwald will feature in future books or whether writing about his defeat was a nod towards a parallel with muggle history (he was defeated in 1945).

I remember seeing an idea similar to that on the Lexicon. Just thought I'd say that...

Also:

"And here we have six missing Death Eaters... three dead in my service. One, too cowardly to return... he will pay. One, who I believe has left me forever... he will be killed, of course... and one, who remains my most faithful servant, and who has already reendtered my service."

OK, we've talked about this in the past, but...

It's obvious that JKR is most likely referring to Karkaroff, Snape and Crouch Jr, in that order. But as we all know, JKR rarely takes the obvious path...

[Colli]

Interesting points, but think about it.

"My faithful servant at Hogwarts" HAS to refer to Crouch, Jr, if there was only one, which Voldie affirms.

Which leaves Snape and Karky as the one afraid and the one gone forever.

Does "afraid to return to Voldemort" seem likely to describe Snape? If that's how JKR really intended it, I'm going to be very disappointed in my Snapey-poo.

[Pilgrim Grey]

I've thought of a new one: why exactly was Dippet dumped in favour of Dumbledore (whoa, that's a lot of D's :D)? We know that Dumbeldore was the transfiguration teacher (which presumably means he was also th deputy Head, if that's how it works...) when Ridle was at school, but there's no mention of how/why Dumbledore gets the job. Did Dippet just retire, or is that too simple for JKR?

[Ravenclaw]

OoooooOOOOOH! Maybe Dippet died! Then there's the question of HOW he died, which could be verry interesting...

Also, I was looking at my previous post and noticed that I'd overlooked something in my question. What about the three that died in Voldie's service? Who were they and how exactly did they die in his service...?

[Colli]

Somewhere in GoF it said that as Voldemort and his supporters gained power, Aurors were given the right to kill, not just to detain.

[Pilgrim Grey]

I think that the three that died were the three on trial with Crouch Jr, although it's not certain...

[Ravenclaw]

But I thought the Lestranges were on trial with Crouch... Voldie said THEY were still in Azkaban.

And you're right, Colli, but there's something unsettling about it... Maybe I'm wrong, though. It could just be nothing.

[Fleurdelacour]

Mugwump is in the dictionary! Go see! :D :D

[Ravenclaw]

OMG, she's right!

Mugwump: A person who acts independently or remains neutral, especially in politics.

HA!

[Seriphus]

OoooooOOOOOH! Maybe Dippet died! Then there's the question of HOW he died, which could be verry interesting... OK, I've just done a quich calculation. Considering CoS was set in 1992 then 1992-50=1942. Dippet was headmaster 50 years ago in 1942, three years before Grindelwald was defeated. Do you think there's a connexion betwwen Grindelwald's defeat, Dippet's death and Dumbledore becoming headmaster?

[Colli]

Maybe Dippet was killed by Grindelwald...

:o I need to finish that timeline I was working on.

[Seriphus]

I've thought of a new one: why exactly was Dippet dumped in favour of Dumbledore (whoa, that's a lot of D's )? A lot of ADs at that. Armando Dippet, Albus Dumbledore. Amos Diggory for the next headmaster? :D

Also at the time of Grindelwald's defeat Tom Riddle was just leaving/had just left school. Maybe he was influenced by Grindelwald, either by working in league with him or by witnessing his power and effect on the wizarding world.

Serphy

[Ravenclaw]

When I read speculations like these, I realize that there are lots and LOTS of people out in the world (unsurprisingly) that are smarter than me.

I wouldn't have thought of half these things if people didn't bring them up.

[ValaSarah]

Hi!

I've been reading the threads this afternoon (my way to obsess since I finished all 4 books between Boxing Day and now), and I have a few questions from the last book I was wondering if others might have opinions on.

I know this is pure speculation, and so we'll never know the answer, but here's my jumbled questions, most of which have to do w/ Harry growing older and possibly dating.

1. Harry is interested in Cho, but Cedric catches her before he does. Cedric dies, namely because of Cho - anyone think Harry will go after Cho in a few years, or stay away from her caused by memories of Cedric?

2. On the 2nd trial in the 4th book, Both of the guy's person they'll miss most are girls (Cho and Hermione) - Harry chooses Ron. Could this be explained by him only being 14, or are we looking at another non-relational martyr figure, somewhat like Frodo (poor Frodo....all that suffering and nary a girl to pawn over him).

3. I was reading on the names thread that Hermione was a greek goddess who was torn between 2 guys - logical conclusion is between Ron and that Bulgarian Dude (sorry, pregnancy is eating up my memory - I only have 8 weeks to go now). I'd much rather see something between Ron and Harry - Ok, must admit now, that I also wanted to see Anakin and Obi fighting over Amidala in Episode 2 but of course wasn't in there :eek: . I'm obsessed w/ love triangles, I guess. Any thoughts?

Just thought I'd raise these points, and see where they take us. Just remember, it's a PG thread.


~Vala:)

[Colli]

Originally posted by ValaSarah
I know this is pure speculation, and so we'll never know the answer
They'll be answered in the later books... on second thought, you're right. We'll never know. :rolleyes: ;)

1. Harry is interested in Cho, but Cedric catches her before he does. Cedric dies, namely because of Cho - anyone think Harry will go after Cho in a few years, or stay away from her caused by memories of Cedric?

No idea... this is a matter for fan fiction. ;) Cho seemed to really like Cedric, I can't imagine her agreeing to date someone else... especially Harry. Too many memories for her. As for Harry, who knows. I for one would rather see him with someone else. His feelings for Cho seem to be purely physical.

2. On the 2nd trial in the 4th book, Both of the guy's person they'll miss most are girls (Cho and Hermione) - Harry chooses Ron. Could this be explained by him only being 14, or are we looking at another non-relational martyr figure, somewhat like Frodo (poor Frodo....all that suffering and nary a girl to pawn over him).
I don't even understand the second half of this paragraph, but the champions didn't actually choose the people they'd miss most. I'd guess originally that teachers close to the students picked, but the comment about Hermione being embarrassed that she was what Viktor would miss most made me think that some "impartial" thing (kinda like the sorting hat or goblet of fire) determined that.

3. I was reading on the names thread that Hermione was a greek goddess who was torn between 2 guys - logical conclusion is between Ron and Viktor. I'd much rather see something between Ron and Harry

More fan fiction! Make sure you visit the Fan Fiction thread in the Leaky Cauldron. :) I think a Hermione love triangle is a definite. :D But I'd rather her stay just friends with Harry.

The Bulgarian guy is Viktor ;), which makes me think of something!
Viktor = victor... the obvious conclusion (before the end of GoF) would be that he would win the Triwizard Tournament, which he didn't do. So that was bugging me a few weeks ago... trying to think of why he was called Viktor if he lost.

What if he "wins" Hermione? What if something happens to Ron? :( What if Ron and Hermione aren't as destined as we thought?

(BTW, good luck with your baby! Is it (going to be) a girl or a boy?)

[Ravenclaw]

Originally posted by ValaSarah

3. I was reading on the names thread that Hermione was a greek goddess who was torn between 2 guys - logical conclusion is between Ron and that Bulgarian Dude (sorry, pregnancy is eating up my memory - I only have 8 weeks to go now). I'd much rather see something between Ron and Harry - Ok, must admit now, that I also wanted to see Anakin and Obi fighting over Amidala in Episode 2 but of course wasn't in there :eek: . I'm obsessed w/ love triangles, I guess. Any thoughts?

This should be reserved for the name thread, but I am way too lazy today, so...

There has been many speculation on Hermione's name and why JKR chose it for her. Some say the Greek Godess who was bitten by a snake or something... dunno the story, even though I've been there and studied it's mythology... Others say it's the character in Shakespeare's A Winter's Tale (the girl torn between two men). Both of these lead to many speculations from love triangles to Hermione getting hurt by a slytherin (the snake in the mythology).

On the Lexicon (http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon/granger.html), there's another theory that seems more probable to my, but leads little room for speculation.

JKR chose the name Hermione from a Shakespeare play, "A Winter's Tale," although she says that the characters are not at all similar. She thought it made sense for a couple of professional dentists to name their only daughter something like that to show how clever they were. But she chose a very unusual name because she worried that, if there were a real child somewhere who was bright and had larger-than-usual front teeth that had the same name, she might get teased. (NPC)

OK, yeah, done.

Good to see you by the way, and the best of luck with your baby!

[Seriphus]

1. Harry is interested in Cho, but Cedric catches her before he does. Cedric dies, namely because of Cho - anyone think Harry will go after Cho in a few years, or stay away from her caused by memories of Cedric? I think she'll always be someone he admires from afar. As Colli said, his attraction is really just physical and if he does go out with someone it'll more likely be someone he's friends with. I can't imagine Cho will be looking for someone else straight away anyway.
2. On the 2nd trial in the 4th book, Both of the guy's person they'll miss most are girls (Cho and Hermione) - Harry chooses Ron. Could this be explained by him only being 14, or are we looking at another non-relational martyr figure, somewhat like Frodo (poor Frodo....all that suffering and nary a girl to pawn over him). I think the task can be explained by the fact that he was only 14 and although he is interested in girls he values Ron a lot higher than them.
The non-relational matyr figure is quite an interesting point because whatever happens between Harry and girls in the future at Hogwarts JKR will have to write about and keep PG. At the same time it's not inconceivable that Harry might die at the end of the series, leaving him like Frodo- all suffering, no action.
Viktor = victor... the obvious conclusion (before the end of GoF) would be that he would win the Triwizard Tournament, which he didn't do. So that was bugging me a few weeks ago... trying to think of why he was called Viktor if he lost.
Well he did win the Quidditch World Cup.
There has been many speculation on Hermione's name and why JKR chose it for her. Some say the Greek Godess who was bitten by a snake or something... dunno the story, even though I've been there and studied it's mythology... Hermione wasn't a goddess, she was the daughter of Menelaus and Helen of Troy. Neoptolemus (Achilles' son) and Orestes (Agamemnon's son) had a big fight over who was going to marry her, both having been given her hand by Menelaus, and Neoptolemus was slain. She married Orestes (her cousin- incidentally).


Serphy

[ValaSarah]

Wow! Thanks so much for the answers.

Sorry for the vague sentences - I got only 5 hours of sleep from Sunday to Monday, and had a horrid day at work yesterday - not good on a Preggo person.:o

To answer one of the myriad of questions - I'm having another girl, so my Hobbiton Lass wont be lonely.(that's not the only reason, we're excited about having another too!):D This 2nd one likes to dance in the morning - when I like to nap while at work (shh! - dont tell the boss!).

I re-read some of the chapters in GoF that caused me to create those speculations yesterday (the Chapter in the prefect bathroom w/ the golden egg, the Chapter about the Dance, The Chapter where Krum asks Harry what his relationship is with Hermione, the 2nd task, etc).

I guess I've sorta come up w/ a pseudo-conclusion (regarding the comparison of Frodo and Harry as non-relational martyrs) that wheras there is really nothing at this point in the HP series to prove that Harry will/wont have a boy-girl relationship, the fact that JKR at least mentions the fact that he is interested in girls (slight interest, but then, he's only 14! - when I was 14 I'd get crushes, but would be way to shy to act upon them - and girls usually develop in that realm before boys do) leads me to believe that he will at least have some relationship. Whether it pans out to be something that lasts a while, or something that is very short term, is up to JKR herself (like anything in the future books). I dont think Harry will be so involved in protecting against the Dark Arts to miss out on that part of growing up (at least, I hope not - that can be looked at as the main reason Frodo didn't have any love interest - that and he was too busy getting the door for Bilbo and reading books).

I think the relationship part of Harry's life can be kept PG too...I mean, I hope Harry is gentlemanly enough not to go too far while in his High School years (which is basically what he'll be entering into at Hogwarts books 5, 6, and 7 until he graduates).

Oh, and Viktor Krum didn't win the World Quidditch Cup - he just caught the Snitch so that the game would end. The Irish won. I guess he is the "Victor" who got Hermione for the Dance because Ron waited until the last minute to ask her, and Viktor (I think it's funny how Ron calls him Vicky - but that's Saturday Night Live coming back to me) got up the nerve, spent time alone w/ her, and asked her - the proper way.

I agree that anything between Harry and Cho probably wouldn't work out. It is purely physical on Harry's end - we dont know anything about Cho's personality other than that she is nice (no accomplishments, etc, other than on the Quidditch field).

Thanks for all the responses. Makes me feel good to know that at least, even if my posts dont make the most sense, they can be used as fodder for conversation.:)

OK - am I the only one who loves re-reading GoF over and over again?


~Vala

[Colli]

Originally posted by ValaSarah
OK - am I the only one who loves re-reading GoF over and over again?

:D nope!

I was rereading TSS last night and thought of something else.
Is Mrs Figg the same person as Arabella Figg?
I'm beginning to think she's not. If you read TSS again, she really doesn't seem like the magic type... of course, that could be a cover. Like when she broke her leg... a witch could've healed it (or had it done for her) instantly. And Harry would watch television at her house.. most witches and wizards aren't too acquainted with Muggle devices. Granted, she could own one, I just don't think it's likely. Plus, if Harry had spent time there every year, wouldn't he have ever noticed anything unusual there?

But it does seem likely to me that she's some relation to Arabella Figg.

[lithorose]

Okay, I'm pretty much a HP newbie. I was wondering what the difference was between the Sorcerer's Stone and the Philosopher's Stone. Are they different names for the same book?

[Amberion]

They are the same book

It was originally called Philosophers Stone, but when released in US, the publishers thought that americans would not get the reference and renaed it Sorcerers Stone

[Colli]

:D A decision Ms Rowling regrets now...

but at the time she was just so happy that someone wanted to publish her book, she decided not to complain. :)

I for one am insulted. ;) Next thing you know "Order of the Phoenix" will be American titled "Order of the firey red bird". ;)

[ValaSarah]

Oh, come on, Colli! American's aren't that thick...we'll just think she's talking about some Order in Phoenix, Arizona!;)

Besides, anyone that has read the books understands the importance the Phoenix has, especially after GoF's Connection part w/ Voldemort (eww, He-who-is-not-named), and in CoS when the Phoenix brings the Sorting Hat.

Philosopher's Stone is a good name, but it's easier to type SS than PS (lazy fingers!)

~Vala

[Colli]

:confused: Phoenix Arizona, the movie star?

[Ravenclaw]

Originally posted by ValaSarah
OK - am I the only one who loves re-reading GoF over and over again?

Ha! No, just the other day I finished SS/PS (Bah, from now on, calling it Philosopher's stone) and am well into CoS. You're not alone here, though others may look at you strangely and say "You're reading that book again??" Just turn to them and say "No, this is actually a different book with the same title, now shoo!"

And Colli, I thought about Mrs. Figg too as I read her little paragraph. Though I will say one thing for her. She has a lot of cats. Say, maybe Arabella is a muggle-born witch and Mrs. Figg is her mother... or maybe not.

And no, Pheonix the town in the state of Arizona. ;)

[ValaSarah]

Nah...the Knicks.....ya know, the basketball team....:cool:

Do you think this is maybe why she had a Bulgarian School and a French School, but no American School? We'd corrupt those poor Hogwarts students in no time flat!:p

~Vala

[Colli]

Well, with those tricksy ol' Salem Witches, you'd never know. :LOL: Unfortunately, Ms Rowling has no current intentions of addressing magic in America, outside of the brief references to American witches at the Quidditch World Cup.

I could swear Phoenix Arizona was a real person, though. ;)

[Sirius Black]

Originally posted by Colli

I for one am insulted. ;) Next thing you know "Order of the Phoenix" will be American titled "Order of the firey red bird". ;)

:eek: Now, don't tell me, you've also got a book called "Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Alcatraz"!?!
SB :D

[Kristin]

:rotfl: Good one, SB!!! :clap:


Hee hee! I'm still laughing. :LOL:

[Seriphus]

Oh, and Viktor Krum didn't win the World Quidditch Cup - he just caught the Snitch so that the game would end. Whoops. Silly mistake.
OK - am I the only one who loves re-reading GoF over and over again? I love reading all four over and over. But it takes me at least a week to read GoF if not longer.

I seem to recall JKR confirming in an interview that Mrs Figg and Arabella Figg are the same person. One interesting thing about her house is that it smells like cabbage, which is what polyjuice potion tastes of, although I'm not sure that JKR would use the polyjuice potion plot point again so soon after GoF.

[amrael]

SB, that was just hilarious!!! :D

OK, one more question for us to debate. A work colleague of mine, who hasn't read any of the books, took his kids to see CoS last week and asked me thus:

'How was Voldemort able to go on existing if he put himself in the diary when he was sixteen?'

And I answered 'ehh, ohh ummm. Let me think about this'.

:rolleyes: :)

The best I was able to come out with before he left my office was that Voldemort has made the diary just before the term started, in this present time, only not putting himself as he is now, but his memories of when he was sixteen. This is supported by the fact that sixteen year old TR knows who Harry is.

But that has left me with another question: if Voldemort is able to put himself into an object, and through it resurrect his body but NOT be killed if said object is destroyed, then we have two horrible options:

Option 1: Voldemort keeps putting his soul in objects while sitting safe somewhere else. If he is killed, out comes another of the little things and here we go again.

And option 2: Several of the little things are activated at the same time and we get an army of Voldemorts about. Though on second thoughts that would be funny: Would he struggle with himself for world mastery? Would all of those Voldemorts be the same? What if one defects to the Light and instead of just the Head of Slytherin House to deal with, Dumbledore has the Heir of Slytherin himself as Harry Potter annoyer extraordinaire?

you thoughts? I must remember to thank my colleague for this...

[Kristin]

Originally posted by amrael
This is supported by the fact that sixteen year old TR knows who Harry is.

It's not clear in the movie, but in the book it seems that TR knows about Harry because of Ginny. (When Ginny writes in the diary about the wonderful Harry Potter and how he defeated Voldemort.) At least, that's how I read it.


But ... wow! What a tough question! I don't think it needs an answer for us to understand the books, but it certainly is interesting to think about. :)

[amrael]

Thanks for the book version. Unfortunately, I have lended my copies both of PS and CoS to a friend and was unable to check those chapters. :)

[Seriphus]

'How was Voldemort able to go on existing if he put himself in the diary when he was sixteen?' He didn't put himself into the diary he put a memory of himself at 16 (a very difficult spell to master). And the memory of his 16 year old self only has any sort of life-force when it feeds off Ginny. The diary is a trap that is able to ensnare a correspondent and gain power to 'exist' from them, hence when Harry meets Tom in the Chamber of Secrets he is blurred around the edges because he hasn't extracted all the life out of Ginny yet.

Tom must have put his memory into the diary 50 years ago, as the date on the diary showed it was 50 years old. I'm not sure Voldemort as a 'disembodied force of evil' would have been able to carry a diary around with him (although somehow he still has his wand in GoF).

Anyway, the way I see it, Voldemort cannot die if a preserved memory of himself is killed off, but I guess it would be possible for a memory to outlive him provided the diary it was kept in was not destroyed.

And like Kristin, I thought that the memory of 16 year old Tom got his information on Harry from Ginny.

[amrael]

So then Voldemort is able to resucitate from just a memory of himself? In that case, what if after Voldemort gets his body back somebody gets into a trap similar to the diary and resucitates Voldie again? Two Voldies? Or if Voldie has got body then the spell won't work?

I must get my CoS back from my friend and read again those chapters. It's not any good to try to talk about this with half my memories spoiled by the film and no hard evidence to fall back to.

[Colli]

:clap: New discussion, yay!

I just found Rowling's comment about Mrs Figg:
The "Arabella Figg" Dumbledore refers to at the end of book four is indeed the same Mrs. Figg that takes care of Harry for the Dursleys in book one.

Darn. There goes my theory. But maybe she is a Muggle, and we've all just been assuming that she's a Witch. "The Old Crowd" could refer to a great many things, but I think it's likely that James and Lily could've had a Muggle friend or two.

I dunno. Maybe I'm just making too much of this. :rolleyes: ;)

[Kristin]

I know that JKR has said that Mrs. Figg and Arabella Figg are the same person.

But I've wondered... If that's true, why does Harry hate going to her house? Why is she so boring?! If she's a witch (and part of Lupin's "old crowd" to boot)?

[Seriphus]

It would certainly have been useful for Lily and James to have had contacts in the muggle world to keep them informed of anything interesting going on.
So then Voldemort is able to resucitate from just a memory of himself? In that case, what if after Voldemort gets his body back somebody gets into a trap similar to the diary and resucitates Voldie again? Two Voldies? Or if Voldie has got body then the spell won't work? This is difficult to get my head round. I guess if Voldy did manage to get someone to read another diary with a different preserved memory and get them to pour enough of themselves into the diary in the way that Ginny did he could produce another version of himself.
What we don't know is what a memory can do. We do know that in CoS Tom is able to pick up Harry's wand so he had a solid body at least, but we don't know whether this body could last; maybe it can only be sustained for a certain amount of time, maybe it would have to stay as the 16 year old Riddle and wouldn't be able to grow or change.
I wonder if Ginny had died whether destroying the diary would have destroyed Tom or whether he'd have become a complete being having taken all of Ginny's strength?

[amrael]

Re Ms Figg



I can think of two options:


Cynical one: JKR decided to turn Ms Figg into a witch after writing her as a boring Harry-sitter, so she's stuck with the earlier definition. Anyway, she must give some explanations so we come to...


Maybe reasons: She's undercover, and must not bring any notice to herself. Getting very friendly with Potter would raise the Dursley's suspicions. Or she is indeed boring, and much older than Lupin. I think 'the old crowd' refers to a lot of people that opposed Voldemort back in the late 70's and might include Moody himself. Or she's plain boring even if she is young. Or she might be, as somebody wrote in a fanfic, a past Head of Slytherin and rather friendly with Snape, so she would do her best to make Harry's life miserable by boring him to death. (I love this one)

Any more ideas, reasonable or not? :D

[Seriphus]

I shouln't think JKR changed her mind, she had all the books planned out before she started writing the first.

She may well be undercover and I think she is old. The other person mentioned from the old gang is described as 'old Mundungus Fletcher' in CoS. Plus Dumbledore's obviously part of it.

[Ravenclaw]

"And old Mundungus Fletcher tried to put a hex on me when I had my back turned..."

Hehe. Re-reading CoS last night, caught that one. Question: Could Mr. Fletcher be an ex-Auror, like Moody and, like Moody, be really jumpy? As that quote says, he did try to hex Mr. Weasley.

Bah... tired... must go babysit little brats who hate me...

[Colli]

Originally posted by Seriphus
I shouln't think JKR changed her mind, she had all the books planned out before she started writing the first.

She may well be undercover and I think she is old. The other person mentioned from the old gang is described as 'old Mundungus Fletcher' in CoS. Plus Dumbledore's obviously part of it.

But she HAS changed her mind before in the middle of writing books. She completely took a character out of Goblet of Fire, we were supposed to see Ron Weasley's cousin, who served the same purpose as Rita Skeeter. Rita Skeeter would've still been a character, just not as big. So it's a possibility, even though, with Mrs Figg, it seems to be a really important plotline, seeing as how James and Lily are involved.

[Seriphus]

I guess, but she didn't change the characters. She was going to have Rita Skeeter in book one, but still a nosy, annoying journalist. Ron's cousin was left out because the book was too long already. I just think, as you said, that Mrs Figg seems too important. JKR should have at least decided whether she's a muggle or a witch.

[Pilgrim Grey]

I'm intrigued... how do you guys know about Ron's cousin, and why would a Weasley be bad?

[Colli]

Pilgrim Grey, this is stuff she's revealed in interviews, which I found at www.mugglenet.com. :)

I believe she explained that Ron's cousin was taken out because she created a major plot hole. But Rita covered her part beautifully. :D

[Seriphus]

Thanks Colli, I hadn't heard about the plot-hole before.

There was some other things I hadn't read either in the interviews that caught my attention.
What or who would you send into Room 101?
Cats - I don't like them, and certain journalists..
You're not kidding- Mrs Norris, Crookshanks etc. She also said that cats will be important in future books.

But there's a small percentage of the stuff in books that is my modification of what people used to believe was true. For example, there is an object in the second book, which is the Hand of Glory. This is very macabre, but people used to believe in Europe that, if you cut off the hand of a hanged man, it would make a perpetual torch that gave light only to the holder, which is a creepy, you know-- but a wonderful idea. So I used that. That's a very ancient idea. I didn't invent the Hand of Glory. I wonder if the Hand of Glory could have anything to do with the green flame torch, rumoured to be in book 6. Perhaps a link to Little Hangleton and The Hanged Man pub that someone mentioned a while ago. I'm kinda clutching at straws here, though.

Serphy

[Ravenclaw]

You might have a point there, Serphy.

I just red about the Hand of Glory last night. JK Rowling mentions it when Harry's hiding in the cupboard and the Malfoys are in the shop in Knockturn Alley. It seems like a minute detail then, but she always brings things like that back (IE, Sirius lending the motorcycle to Hagrid in the first book... Sirius Black becomes a main character in the third.)

But as I was reading that chapter, I came up with a few questions about the Malfoys.

What does Lucious Malfoy DO? I mean, we all know he's a Death Eater and all that but surely he MUST have a legetimate business otherwise where would all the money come from? (besides stealing and killing) It would get fishy.

Would someone please tell me what Mr. Malfoy does for a living because perhaps I missed it or forgot. I think Draco mentions it somewhere, doesn't he? And I'm just being dense again.

But also.

Perhaps this came up in a different discussion, but maybe Draco has OTHER reasons for hating Potter other than the obvious. Let me remind you of this little conversation:

"Harry Potter got a Nimbus Two Thousand last year . Special permission from Dumbledore so he could play for Gryffindor. He's not even that good, it's just because he's famous... Famous for having a stupid scar on his forehead... Everyone thinks he's so smart, wonderfull Potter with his scar and his broomstick--"
"You have told me this at least a dozen times already!"

That sounds a bit JEALOUS to me. Especially since he complains all the time, according to his father.

[Seriphus]

Draco does seem very jealous of Harry and also envious of Ron and Hermione for becoming his friends.

I don't think we've been told what Lucious does for a living. Possibly something at the Ministry as he was sitting near the Weasleys at the World Cup and I think they got those tickets through the Ministry.

[Elfëa]

Now I remembered it!

I saw the movie again last week and there were two things that stuck my mind that "it wasn't said in the books" - the other being the ending with Ron and Hermione... I forgot the other until now :)

In CoS movie Lucius says to Arthur "see you at work"... (I swear it said so!)

[amrael]

Lucius doesn't have to actually DO anything at all, at least not a standard job. He is the heir of an ancient, noble and very rich family, so his estate must bring in more than enough cash to cover any needs. If he holds a post, it will be one of political significance, such a membership in the board of Hogwarts (shamefully lost, btw) or something like that. He possibly holds several of those and at least one in the ministry. But I don't think a Malfoy would get a job for pay. He would consider it beneath him.

EDIT: just saw your post, Elfëa. Doesn't he say see you at the ministry? I'm not sure at all, it might be as you say. I don't remember any reference in the books, and I haven't got all of mine back.

[Colli]

I seem to remember him saying something like that... I'll check my tape. :) It was at Flourish and Blotts, right?

[amrael]

I think so, when he meets Harry & Co and dumps Riddle's diary in Ginny's cauldron. Sneaky, very sneaky Lucius...

[Elfëa]

Yeps, Florish and Blotts...

if he didn't say that I'll curse the translator... the translation said see you at work... and that's why it caught my attention!

but certainly he doesn't have a job to pay... and I'm thinking in that the books consider Lucius as outsider of the Ministry - how he asks Arthur Weasley "how ministry is paying for the extra raids..."

you know what I mean, don't you? :)

[Colli]

:) I think there are a lot of little places in the books that imply that Lucius is at the Ministry, one of them coming into my mind being how the Ron and Harry are talking about Arthur and Lucius and how Lucius thinks he's better than Arthur because of his position (that seems to be at the Ministry), and how Ron says "It's not that he can't do any better, he just likes it where he is".

Or something to that effect. :rolleyes: ;)

[Elfëa]

Oh. :p

But why would Ministry raid its officals home? :confused: :)

[Colli]

:shrugs:

Guess I'll have to reread the books again sometime, and pay more attention to Lucius. ;)

[amrael]

I don't think as Malfoy as a Ministry 'official'. Arthur Weasley has to work for pay, Malfoy doesn't. I don't think Malfoy would consider any official post other than Minister itself, but as a man of great wealth and a high place in society (he can certainly afford to buy that) he will have lots of unofficial links and friends in the ministry, maybe heading some comitee or another. That would make it possible for some departments to raid his house, as he wouldn't be really a member of the staff. On the other hand, raiding people like Malfoy is a great way to not get promotions, as Arthur Weasley doubtlessly knows very well.

[Seriphus]

But why would Ministry raid its officals home? If they suspected something was amiss I don't see why not. They wouldn't want someone who had connexions, at least, with the Ministry to be exposed as a Death Eater without them having done their best to prevent it. They investigated Arthur Weasley over the car, I can see that they would be more reluctant to investigate Lucius, but not enough to rule it out.

[Pilgrim Grey]

Well, this might not count as a job, but he was one of the Hogwarts governors, but he was sacked at the end of COS for threatening the other members (a fact that Draco promptly forgets in POA - he goes around boasting about how much power his father has with the governors :p)

And I haven't seen the movie - what is the Ron and Hermione ending?

[Elfëa]

Shortly: Hermione hugs Harry but doesn't hug Ron but rather awkardly shakes his hand...

gives some idea for the R/Herm ship... and the Chamber scene some for H/G :)

(a fact that Draco promptly forgets in POA - he goes around boasting about how much power his father has with the governors )

Oh... I haven't noticed that :o

:lol:

[ValaSarah]

Ya know, when I watched CoS (this was before reading the books), I thought there might be something between Harry and Hermione, not Hermione and Ron (although, now that I've read the books, it becomes more clear).

As to the possibility of Harry/Ginny - I've been reading lots of fanfic on this (actually find some of the "romantic" parts quite humourous(sp?)). IF anything were to happen between those two, I doubt it would happen until both were older than OOTP (probably not until book 7). I say this because Harry wouldn't even talk to Ron about his actions with Hermione because he was fearful of losing his "speaking terms" with him again (in GOF, the end of the "Yule Ball" Chapter. Can you imagine how awkward it would be to be dating Ron's younger sister, and how fearful of being on "speaking terms" he'd be with Ron? I doubt Harry would do that at age 15, when he seems so shy, and both he, and Ron, are still pretty imature relationship-wise.

Just my thoughts.

I'm still stoked w/ the news release that OOTP might be coming out in July (woohoo!).


~Vala

[Ravenclaw]

But I don't really think Lucius works at the Ministry... Not the way he talks about it. But it makes sense, I suppose. Many people hate where they work. And, as an ex(?) Death Eater, he has good reason to hate it, even if he does work there.

[ValaSarah]

I think Lucious might work for the Ministry, just to cover his tracks, and throw off those who think he might be a Death Eater. But I dont think he needs the money. It doesn't seem in his character. I agree with whomever mentioned that his wealth is probably "old wealth", ie, passed down from previous generations (probably of bad, corrupt people like him).

Using that old wealth money as influence is a good way to keep "respectors of persons" off his back as well. In the Quidditch World Cup in GOF I think it was Bagman (might have been Fudge himself) who mentioned that Lucious had just donated a ton of money to a "worthy cause" *drat, book at home, me at work...* and was a high society member. I think perhaps JKR will have a stronger point later on about how those who are "respectors of persons", but not of personalities, are weak or wrong for their actions because of such. Same thing as Dumbledore's appreciation of Witches and Wizards from Muggle Families vs. Wizarding Families.

I've become interested in noticing how it seems that each shady Ministry Member ends up being associated with the Death Eaters in some way or another. Ludo Bagman was associated, but we know that he wasn't a bad guy in it, just gave out info w/o meaning to. Fudge himself assisted in saving his Son's life, even if it meant his wife's life instead.

I'm curious to see what Fudge's relationship to the Dumbledore "old guard" crowd is in the next book. Fudge seems to be making decisions that the main characters, such as Hermione, were questioning in GOF (such as Winky, the house-elf), and even more so towards the end of the book, when Dumbledore himself confronts Fudge and tells him he is not working against him, but against Voldemort (sorta insinuating that if Fudge doesn't work with Dumbledore, he is working FOR Voldemort).

Just had a funny thought. Say Lucious uses all his money bribing of everyone to think he's a good guy.....imagine Draco working at McDonald's to scrape by after Harry kills Lucious...:jawdrop:



~Vala

[Ravenclaw]

Harry killing Lucius is a good speculating point, actually... That would, of course, infuriate Draco. Might even be the last straw that makes him turn his back on the world...

On a lighter note, I can just see Draco in a Mickey D's uniform flipping burgers and being bossed around by a sixteen-year-old manager

"Flip that burger, Malfoy!"
"Yes, sir!"

[Elfëa]

And the "Yes, sir" comes with a spell that turns the manager to a toad... ;)

I could just see him working on the drive through.... :eek: Smirk would really scare the customers..

[Ravenclaw]

And the frog knows just enough to croak "You're fired!" in which case, he throws off his little hat and gets a job at the Domino's next door as a delivery boy... Secretly placing salamanders on it and passing them off as strange looking mushrooms...

I could do a whole paragraph about that! HAHA!

[Elfëa]

That would make an interesting fic :p ;)

[Colli]

:D I've been rereading again.. and I've changed my mind... I don't think Lucius works at the Ministry.

I hate to bring back up the "Why was Voldemort after the Potters?" debate again :D, but I noticed a minor little word while reading PoA last night.

When Sirius is talking to Pettigrew... he talks about how all of the Death Eaters would be proud of him if he could tell Voldemort that he could deliver him the last Potter.

The last Potter? *grins* I hope this doesn't lead to Harry is Gryffindor's heir, but I KNEW there was a specific reason Voldy wanted him dead. And the fact that James' parents and/or grandparents were rich is significant..

[Elfëa]

Last Potter... perhaps that's why he didn't have intentions/need to kill Lily? :)

but that still doesn't tell us why Potters are important... :p (No, I don't believe in the Heir of Gryffindor theory... :p

[Colli]

:D Rowling has specified that we'll find about about James' parents, and why he didn't have to work, and where they got all that money. Surely that has something to do with it.

<--- EXCITED

[Pilgrim Grey]

LOL, so the Dursley's WERE telling the truth when they said that James didn't work! :D

And I've got a new question! Why was Harry's house destroyed when Avada Kedavra bounced off him? Re-reading GOF, it seems like a pretty passive spell (for a spell that kills people that is) and it wasn't even powerful enough to kill Voldy when it was reflected... so what was it that blew up Harry's house?

[Seriphus]

I'd never thought of that. Maybe the house blowing up is a sign of how powerful Harry is.

[Elfëa]

Or perhaps it was because Voldemort's powers just flew off? And Voldemort caused the ruin... Not Harry... :p

[lithorose]

Okay, I've finished reading all the books now[:clap:], and I'm wondering:
Why doesn't Lupin see Harry and Hermione's future selves on the map when he sees Pettigrew?
And why did Cedric Diggory die? Why kill rather than stun him or something? I personally suspect it'll be important later, but I was wondering what others think.

[amrael]

And why did Cedric Diggory die? Why kill rather than stun him or something?

I think that 'Kill the spare' is one of the best lines of GoF. Short and to the point. Until then, Voldemort is a hazy threat. You are told he is a ruthless killer, but nothing ever happens, at least not to the good guys. And then, it comes. Voldemort may play around with Harry, wishing to give him a 'special treatment' and all, but when it comes to the rest, he simply kills. Swift and sure, as it should be.

this is one of the reasons why GoF is my favourite: the bad guys stop messing around and prove indeed that Voldemort is an evil force and that nobody is safe.


Though I'm sorry for poor Cedric. He sure didn't deserve to die, but the story demanded that he had to go. :(

[Elfëa]

And Cedric's death is a way to grow up Harry as a character :) It's also a literally device :)

Harry's world is, IMO, fairly sinister... we just tend to forget it...

And about Marauder's Map... well, I've come to a conclusion that as it's a magical device, it only shows persons you have interest in or need information about :)

[Colli]

:D There are so many issues with the Marauder's Map, it's not even funny.

The double Harry/Hermione one has been an issue of mine for a while. As well as how would the multiple levels of Hogwarts and the moving stairs be represented.. gr.

[amrael]

Harry's world is, IMO, fairly sinister... we just tend to forget it...



Yup. That's why I like that line so much. It makes all the sinistry? sinisterness? er.... brings to mind exactly how sinister it really is.

[Colli]

:D Sinister... like the Phantom. :swoon: My mom's worried about me..

Hmm... questions that need to be answered..

How could Nicholas Flamel be immortal if he died? :devil:

[Elfëa]

Hmm...

that's rather difficult question, but of course JKR could have been creating new meanings to words :p

[lithorose]

The map could be in 3D with the roofs cut off, and could move about depending on where you wanted to look (sort of an Escher type thing). That part doesn't bother me, but the extra people does.

As for Cedric, I don't think JKR would simply have him die to let Harry grow. I will just wait for her explanation.

Wouldn't Dumbledore of all people notice that Moody wasn't really himself?

[Elfëa]

Wouldn't Dumbledore of all people notice that Moody wasn't really himself?

Cause.. cause...

Good question :p

I still think that the map shows only what is necessary for you to know... or what it wants to show you... kinda like the castle - it moves around all the time... little bit of wild magic ;)

[Ravenclaw]

Originally posted by Elfëa
And about Marauder's Map... well, I've come to a conclusion that as it's a magical device, it only shows persons you have interest in or need information about :)

...Then why would it show Pettigrew's name? He wasn't even THINKING about him! Also, it says he was looking at it and their names showed up. And Harry looks at the map to see if ANYONE is around, not just a particular person (though maybe he keeps an extra eye out for Snape and Filch).

I can't really explain it. I think the map got confused (haha, personification) and couldn't see how there could be two of the same person. So it thought it was a glitch and only showed one of the personas. OR, maybe LUPIN thought it was a glitch in the map...

On an off topic note...

Originally Posted by Colli
Sinister... like the Phantom.

OH NO! Not you too! What is it with people and that annoying Erik!

[Colli]

Originally posted by Ravenclaw
OR, maybe LUPIN thought it was a glitch in the map...

:D But Lupin told the trio that the map never lies...

[Elfëa]

Originally posted by Ravenclaw
...Then why would it show Pettigrew's name? He wasn't even THINKING about him! Also, it says he was looking at it and their names showed up. And Harry looks at the map to see if ANYONE is around, not just a particular person (though maybe he keeps an extra eye out for Snape and Filch).

Originally posted by Elfea
I still think that the map shows only what is necessary for you to know... or what it wants to show you... kinda like the castle - it moves around all the time... little bit of wild magic ;)

Wild magic. Like the staircases and such. Magic decides that they need to know it.

[angleet]

Originally posted by Colli
:D But Lupin told the trio that the map never lies...

It seems far more likely that Lupin simply didn't NOTICE that there were two of Harry and Hermione. Once he saw the name Pettigrew, after all, he wouldn't really be thinking of much else.

Originally posted by Pilgrim Gray
and it wasn't even powerful enough to kill Voldy when it was reflected

Doesn't V go on about having done all sorts of experiments to try to cheat death? I believe he himself attributed his survival to those experiments.

[Colli]

Originally posted by angleet
It seems far more likely that Lupin simply didn't NOTICE that there were two of Harry and Hermione. Once he saw the name Pettigrew, after all, he wouldn't really be thinking of much else.

:) Nice observation. But it also says that Lupin watched them cross the grounds and go to Hagrid's hut, and leave 20 minutes later (accompanied by Pettigrew)... so he had been watching it the entire time. :confused: (Colli :trout:s Lupin for not noticing Pettigrew in the first place)

[Pilgrim Grey]

I have a new question (getting sick of hearing that, aren't you :D):
What's up with Crookshanks? POA told us that he's really smart for a cat, and in GOF it says that he was looking at Harry just like Hermione would when he was cheating on his homework. Is this a Mrs Norris kinda thing or what?

[lizz]

Originally posted by Pilgrim Grey
Is this a Mrs Norris kinda thing or what? I hope its nothing more than that. sirius also says Crookshanks isnt a normal cat in PoA. But I would just hate it if Crookshanks turned out to be just ANOTHER animagus. IMHO we had enough of these.

[Elfëa]

I think there's some small book around about animals or something that says Crookhanks is a Kneaze??? Whatever that is...

comes around in FF quite lot :o

[Seriphus]

There was some speculation that Crookshanks is half-Kneazle. From Fantastic Beasts & Where To Find Them:

M.O.M Classification: XXX
The Kneazle was originally bred in Britain, though it is now exported worldwide. A small cat-like creature with flecked, speckled or spotted fur, outsize ears and a tail like a lion's, the Kneazle is intelligent, independent and occasionally aggressive; though if it takes a liking to a witch or wizard, it makes an excellent pet. The Kneazle has an uncanny ability to detect unsavoury or suspicious characters and can be relied upon to guide its owner safely home if they are lost. Kneazles have up to eight kittens in a litter and can interbreed with cats. Licences are required for ownership as (like Crups and Fwoopers) Kneazles are sufficiently unusual in appearance to attract Muggle interest.

[lithorose]

While I was re-reading PoA something struck me that I don't think has been addressed yet...Snape was in the Shrieking Shack during Lupin's explanation of the Animagi...so why didn't he tell anyone that Sirius Black was an Animagus? Did he get partial amnesia?

[Elfëa]

Hmm... was he out cold at that point? Have to check the books...

[lithorose]

Nope. It's between when Snape snuck in (the door opening of it's own accord) and when he showed himself.

[Elfëa]

Perhaps he claims it on confundus charm? That they're trying to feed crap to trio?

[Lord Schaudt]

Snape could just not want to tell, think about it he knows dumbledore knows and that he will get fired for sure if Dumbuldore does and D man(so many names) will get fired for somehting like hiding a way convicted crimanl

[ChianaWeasley]

Sorry for cutting in, but I think maybe Sanpe didn't want to say anything. Because he was ashamed of the fact that three students overpowered him.

[athelas22]

Hi... I just found this forum today, so please excuse me for asking something that may have already been discussed elsewhere. My question...
Did Scabbers/Pettigrew know that it was Voldemort he was biting in PS? This sort of makes no sense to me that a) Pettigrew isn't given credit for helping Harry (even begrudgingly) and b) Pettigrew isn't punished by Voldemort for helping Harry. Was it just a random instinct to bite? But he was always sleeping and just happens to wake up at the time and save the day... :confused: What's going on? This makes me think that Scabbers wasn't originally planned to be an animagus or anything special at the beginning and Rowling changed him later after the fact of him saving Harry in the first book.

I also wanted to know...
Is Slytherin (ie, the person) really so evil? I mean, I get the impression from a lot of the posts here that Harry may be the "heir of Gryffindor" and somehting about a final showdown with the Slytherins, etc. etc. I mean, why would one of the Hogwort's houses be founded by some dark wizard and allowed to continue as a house all those years?
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I believe that Slytherin house will be just as integral to the defeat of Voldemort as any other (just because the bad apples come from SLytherin house doesn't make the house itself intrinsically evil) and that someone can be good and noble and still be a Slytherin (ie, Snape is relatively good ;) ) and I have a feeling Draco might just end up being good too. Is there anything in the books that specifically say that Slytherin was a bad person or did bad things? And that there was bad blood between him and Gryffindor to start a whole feud and final battle generations later?

[glaelia]

erm... scabbers bit crabbe... not voldemort!

[Elfëa]

Originally posted by athelas22
Is Slytherin (ie, the person) really so evil?

Is there anything in the books that specifically say that Slytherin was a bad person or did bad things? And that there was bad blood between him and Gryffindor to start a whole feud and final battle generations later?

It's said that the founders didn't get along because Slythering wanted to be more specific who is accepted to the school. And because the books are from Harry's point of view, Slytherins are seen as evil.
The focaliser in the books is Harry, but he's not the narrator (yes, this is possible, and sorry for using Eng Lit vocabulary :p) and so the reader sees the Slytherins from Harry's point of view. Harry's point of view is affected by the fact that he's new to the wizarding world - so the opinions of others will affect his point of view. Hagrid's words "all dark wizards have come from Slytherin" made him ask the Sorting Hat not to put him in Slytherin.
It isn't said that Salazar Slytherin was evil - but that's general assumpition in the wizarding world, at least, according to Ron. But then again, wizards also assume that giants (and half giants) are evil and mad.

Personally I don't believe in Heir of Gryffindor theory - it is a cliche.
And I believe that Slytherins are just people as are Gryffindors - after all, they were 11 when they were sorted, people can change to opposites (and back) from there till adulthood. (and change again). Also, in the books, the definition of good and evil is from Harry's perspective, however, I'm waiting the books show (in OotP perhaps :)) the more greyer areas - our choices aren't always enough...

[Seriphus]

I really hope that Slytherin house does get shown in a better light in later books. I don't believe that everyone in that house is bad (certainly not evil). At the moment the books are telling us that if you're an ambitious person, then you're a bad person. that message shouldn't remain that way all the way through.
It doesn't say that Slytherin, himself, was evil, but we do know that he and Gryffindor has disagreements that separated Slytherin from the rest of the founders. He had the same values that members of Slytherin house display such as the belief that Hogwarts should be more selective in its choice of students. As long as Snape is actively against Voldemort then Slytherin house will play a part in his downfall.

As for Scabbers in book 1, I was slightly confused by this too. I assumed he just wanted to get back to sleep and so got rid of Malfoy & friends as quickly as possible. :)

Serphy

[athelas22]

Yeah sorry, I'm a little fuzzy on the first book - it's been a while. But still, Scabbers did ultimately help Harry in defeating Voldemort in the first book and I was just wondering if there would be any consequences to that... or I guess Pettigrew could just have let it slide with the excuse that he didn't really know what was going on around him and didn't realize what he was doing. Did he know what was going on? Did he pay attention to the world around him, or did he only perk up when he heard Sirius escaped?

I agree, Seriphus, I also hope that Slytherin is shown to be an integral part of Hogwarts, just as useful and part of the cause as any of the other houses. I personally have some theory that the four houses of Hogwarts will eventually unite in some way to make a powerful move against Voldemort with maybe each house being represented by four members - Gryffindor/Harry, Ravenclaw/Cho (she seems to be the most public Ravenclaw so far in the books), Slytherin/Draco, and Hufflepuff/Cedric (as a ghost? I dunno, I don't think we've seen the last of him). But that's just my musings... :D
Also, I totally understand where you're coming from Elfea - even with the boring literary definitions ;)

[Colli]

First things first!

Welcome to the Muggle Informer, athelas! :hug: Just yell if you need anything. :D

You bring up very good points about Slytherin. I do hope Slytherin (the house) is shown more favorably in the coming books.... we haven't yet seen a Slytherin that's nice, but not all of them are future Dark Lords. ;)

But as for Salazar Slytherin himself, I do believe he's evil.

From Chamber of Secrets, chapter 9
Slytherin ... sealed the Chamber of Secrets so that none would be able to open it until his own true heir arrived at the school. The heir alone would be able to unseal the CoS, unleash the horror within [some sort of monster], and use it to purge the school of all who were unworthy to study magic.

What non-evil guy would go to all that trouble to kill a bunch of Mudbloods a thousand years later? ;) :D

[Elfëa]

Colli, you're only forgetting one thing - 1)it's a legend and they have tendecy to grow unnatural 2)from who's point of view is that?

Huh... true heir stuff... :rolleyes: I mean, there must have been dozens of heir's of slytherin before Riddle...

[Colli]

I'm only forgetting one thing? ;)

True, it's a legend, but why else would he build that chamber? It's obvious he did, if Tom Riddle came and tried to fulfill it...

And legends tend to have a very strong basis in fact. :D

[Elfëa]

yes, even if they tend to be more monstrously described.

But the magical world has it's cruel animals - how can we know that Salazar wasn't just another Hagrid? :p

[Colli]

:D Because Hagrid didn't want to kill all the students of Muggle birth. ;)

I'm seeing your point.... almost. :p

[Elfëa]

Just wait till I'm on the mood... after I've killed this assessment, that's it.:p

[athelas22]

Thanks for the welcome, Colli! I'll yell as loud as I can for help :) I unfortunatley will be stuck on the island of Crete when the new harry potter comes out. Hopefully I'll be able to find a bookstore that sells English books and will have them in stock at around the 21 of June :( There is still hope ;)

Also I wanted to add from a previous discussion here about the name Hermione - I hope it's not based on the Greek mythological character. I've read two plays with Hermione as a character (both Euripides) The Orestes and Andromache. Both plays, hermione is a less than stellar person. In the Orestes, she is in many of the action-packed scenes near the end and DOES NOT SAY A WORD!!!! In the last scenes, Orestes attempts to kill her mother (Helen of Troy) and when that doesn't work out, he tries to kill her. Not a peep out of her. And then, in ANdromache, she's just a plain !!!!!! She's jealous of Andromache and that Neoptolemus loves Andromache more than her and is just a royal brat the entire play. Anyways.... not the most noble personage to base one's character on. (Well, Hermione is a bit of a know-it-all brat in the books too I guess... :p )

[Elfëa]

Hermione a Greek name?

How come I haven't come by to it - I've read loads and loads of classical mythology...

but then again - the classical loads is totally messed up. Same stories with different characters ;)

[Seriphus]

Hermione is the daughter of Menelaus and Helen, and the niece of Agamemnon.
She was in a love triangle with Orestes and Neoptolemus, which some people think will mean Hermione Granger will be in a love triangle with Ron and Krum.

[Elfëa]

Nah, it's Harry and Ron triangle :p

*feels bad cause she has misses "important" part of Greek mythology* ;)

[Ravenclaw]

Originally posted by Seriphus
Hermione is the daughter of Menelaus and Helen, and the niece of Agamemnon.
She was in a love triangle with Orestes and Neoptolemus, which some people think will mean Hermione Granger will be in a love triangle with Ron and Krum.

Let me say my opinion one more time in another place. ;-)

Hermione's name
JKR chose the name Hermione from a Shakespeare play, "A Winter's Tale," although she says that the characters are not at all similar. She thought it made sense for a couple of professional dentists to name their only daughter something like that to show how clever they were. But she chose a very unusual name because she worried that, if there were a real child somewhere who was bright and had larger-than-usual front teeth that had the same name, she might get teased. (NPC)

^^-- Source: Harry Potter Lexicon

I believe strongly in that theory seeing as I believe there is a lot of evidence backing it up.

Still, the daughter of Helen theory and the Winter's Tale theory are fun, aren't they? And they both talk about love triangles! How intriguing! Also, Hermione sounds a bit like Hermia, don't you think? (Midsummer Night's Dream)

[Elfëa]

Gah. Does that mean I have to do my Shakespeare? :rolleyes:

[Seriphus]

I don't actually believe the love triangle theory, it's just the most popular one I know in regards to character names.

However I think there's more to JKR's choosing of names than she lets on. The Lexicon explanation may well be all there is to it, but it sounds a bit fabricated to me. Let's face it someone who's bright with sticking out teeth is going to get teased at school anyway; kids are cruel. Sharing a name with a popular book character will more likely lessen the teasing. Or maybe I read too much into these things.

[Elfëa]

And, while writing, she didn't know she was going to get it published.... :p So, she really couldn't wait for international fame?

[lithorose]

And, while writing, she didn't know she was going to get it published.... So, she really couldn't wait for international fame? Good point...The dentist part sounds pretty reasonable though. Honestly I hope it doesn't have that sort of symbolic significance; I think it's cool that some names, like Lupin and Sirius have it, but IMO it gets kind of boring if they all do. I guess I just don't like knowing (or thinking I know) where the character is going before they get there. But guessing can be fun too...

[Imdolien]

What about the three that died in Voldie's service? Who were they and how exactly did they die in his service...?
--Ravenclaw

I think during Karkaroff's trial, three of the Deatheaters he mentioned were said to have been killed/killed themselves during cofrontations w/the Aurors.

I hate to bring back up the "Why was Voldemort after the Potters?" debate again , but I noticed a minor little word while reading PoA last night.

When Sirius is talking to Pettigrew... he talks about how all of the Death Eaters would be proud of him if he could tell Voldemort that he could deliver him the last Potter.

The last Potter? *grins* I hope this doesn't lead to Harry is Gryffindor's heir, but I KNEW there was a specific reason Voldy wanted him dead. And the fact that James' parents and/or grandparents were rich is significant..
--Colli

My apologies to everyone who's already tired of the Heir theory! Bear with me for a moment. Maybe Harry is Heir to both Gryffindor (through his father) and Slytherin (through his mother). Being of Slytherin's line wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, either, as one of the Sorting Hat's songs mentions how the 4 founders were friends. Much is made of Godric's nobility, ergo Salazar probably wasn't a Dark Wizard. It's unlikely for Harry to be the Heir of anything, but given that we know so little about his family, past his parent's generation, why not?

Alternately, if Volemort's the Heir, maybe the heirs of the 4 houses cannot hurt each other, for reasons dating back to the foundation of Hogwarts (drawing in speculation as to why V and H happened to pick "brother" wands w/cores from Fawkes' feathers ~ are there likewise "sister" wands for the other two houses?). Hehe, Hermione would be a good person to ask, since she seems to have read Hogwards, A History so thoroughly. Anyway, on to other questions...

Question:
Voldemort seems pitiless about killing anyone - either family, wizard, witch, or Muggle - who got it in his way, so why was he particularly after James and Harry...and not Lily? Yes, he killed her, too - but only because she tried to protect Harry.

My guess is:
Perhaps Lily was/had been involved at some point with the Dark Arts. Why else would V think that Lily would just hand Harry over to him, after he had just killed her husband, James? I think it unlikely that she would have been a Death Eater, as V had a thing against Muggles - and it is presumed that Lily (Evans) Potter came from Muggle parents. Lily's possible skill/knowledge of the D.A. would be an alternate explanation for why Harry can speak with snakes, too :D

Another question:
What happened to Harry's grandparents (on BOTH sides of the family)? He was just 1 when his parents died, and his only living relative was Aunt Petunia. Wizards may have longer lifespans than Muggles, but how likely is it that both sets of grandparents had kids late in life AND then all died before their grandchildren were born.

There was some speculation that Crookshanks is half-Kneazle. From Fantastic Beasts & Where To Find Them:

M.O.M Classification: XXX
The Kneazle was originally bred in Britain, though it is now exported worldwide. A small cat-like creature with flecked, speckled or spotted fur, outsize ears and a tail like a lion's, the Kneazle is intelligent, independent and occasionally aggressive; though if it takes a liking to a witch or wizard, it makes an excellent pet. The Kneazle has an uncanny ability to detect unsavoury or suspicious characters and can be relied upon to guide its owner safely home if they are lost. Kneazles have up to eight kittens in a litter and can interbreed with cats. Licences are required for ownership as (like Crups and Fwoopers) Kneazles are sufficiently unusual in appearance to attract Muggle interest.

Doesn't the first book go on a bit about Mrs. Figg's cats? Maybe she has Kneazles (or half-Kneazles) - since they can detect the Bad People, all of them being neighbors to Harry would definitely be a way to guard him in the Muggle world!

[Seriphus]

Maybe Harry is Heir to both Gryffindor (through his father) and Slytherin (through his mother). Wasn't Tom Riddle the last heir of Slytherin? Alternately, if Volemort's the Heir, maybe the heirs of the 4 houses cannot hurt each other, for reasons dating back to the foundation of Hogwarts (drawing in speculation as to why V and H happened to pick "brother" wands w/cores from Fawkes' feathers ~ are there likewise "sister" wands for the other two houses?). But then Harry and James could not be related if Voldemort can't harm Harry, but killed James. My guess is:
Perhaps Lily was/had been involved at some point with the Dark Arts. Why else would V think that Lily would just hand Harry over to him, after he had just killed her husband, James? I think we're supposed to find out some big secret about Lily in book 5 or 6. Whether or not it's about her dark tendencies, though, is anyone's guess. :) What happened to Harry's grandparents (on BOTH sides of the family)? That's a good point. Maybe there's more to the Evans side of the family than meets the eye.


Serphy

[Imdolien]

Hiya Serphy! Thanks for the great responses :D

Wasn't Tom Riddle the last heir of Slytherin? :o You're right! I don't have that book here w/me so I couldn't check.
And also, this:
But then Harry and James could not be related if Voldemort can't harm Harry, but killed James. ...was an excellent point. I :trout: myself for getting carried away w/my crazy theories. That's the great thing about forums: thoughts can be swapped, flaws spotted, the works! Thanks again :)

[Seriphus]

Hey there,

Nothing wrong with coming up with crazy theories, I love reading them :) . I seem to be quite good at picking holes in things, but can't come up with anything better myself :rolleyes: .

[lithorose]

Has anybody noticed how similar Sirius and Snape are? JKR describes them almost exactly the same; I wonder if it's just an accident or if there's something to it?

[Colli]

Well we all know Snape's a vampire :p ;)

Um.. Snape certainly did seem to hate Sirius more than all the others, but I can't imagine them being twin brothers separated at birth or anything. :D Interesting that you pointed that out, though. I'll have to think about it. :)

[sirius2004]

they can't be twin brothers.....Alan Rickman's what....13 years older than Gary Oldman?? umm....yea.....BROTHERS maybe...Twins? i'm not entirely sure that's possible....
:D hehehehe j/k :-p

[Colli]

:D This is Lit Discussion.. and as far as we know, Snape and Sirius are the same age. ;)

[sirius2004]

good point.....in that case....i stand corrected...it is ENTIRELY possible....carry on!

[Elfëa]

Has anyone pointed out the mirroring between:

Harry/James
Ron/Sirius
Hermione/Lupin
Draco/Snape
Neville/Pettigrew... ?

:p I know I've posted some about this on KD... ;)

[amrael]

Snape and Sirius don't have to be twin brothers. They might be cousins or something like that. After all we don't know anything about the maiden names of their mothers.

On the Heir of Slytherin issue, maybe it is a coming surprise even for Dumbledore himself. Harry might be descended from another branch of the Slytherin family other than the direct line I assume Riddle comes from. Hey, maybe he is related to Slytherin on Lily Evans' side and that is what kept Voldemort from killing him, while Potter Senior wouldn't belong to Slytherin's family at all and so would remain vulnerable. From Voldie's point of view, Lily could be 'family' while Harry was too much 'tainted' by his Potter (and Gryffindor?) heritage.

[lithorose]

Has anyone pointed out the mirroring between:
Harry/James
Ron/Sirius
Hermione/Lupin
Draco/Snape
Neville/Pettigrew... Yes, and I hope it doesn't mean that Neville will turn bad. I hope it's only mirroring with a difference; that is they have some things in common but are still their own characters. Unless for some reason JKR wants us to think Neville will turn bad so she can surprise us!

But I don't see how Neville could turn bad anyway. He has to live with two parent's who don't know who he is because of what Voldemort did to them. And I think seeing what happened to them has caused him to have a lot of fear, which is a little different than Pettigrew.

I've gotten this suspicion lately that the Creevey brothers will become important later; they're always there, annoying Harry. He keeps trying to brush them off; how long until they realize it and begin to resent it? Maybe?

And I really hope Snape and Sirius aren't blood-related. It may be that they're too similar to each other and hate each other because of it.

[Alf]

Imdolien, about your theory about James being killed...

I got the feeling from the books that Voldemort was specifically looking to kill Harry. James tried to give Lily more time to escape by confronting Voldy... he got killed then Lily died trying to defend Harry. Infact, isn't there a bit in Azkaban where during Harry's dementor induced dreams that he hears Voldemort say something along the lines of 'Get away from him...' to Lily?

The real question is why Voldemort wanted to kill harry specifically...

[Elfëa]

Hello Alf :) :wave: Welcome to the boards.

I agree - Why Voldie wants to kill ickle Harry in beginning with? Unless JKR's really describing random evil world here... (then again, the world of Harry Potter is Sinister...) :devil:

[Colli]

Warning: I've been thinking. I've also been very stressed out lately. The following is likely to make little to no sense... but bear with me. :D Part of it is influenced by my favorite tv show, Alias.



We're all so pathetic! Our minds are trapped in this fantasy novel world... where everything is so nice and even that things start out in Book 1 ok, and by the middle of the series we reach a major turning point: Voldemort returns. So naturally we tend to want to keep things nice and even and have him destroyed (I don't know if you call kill something like Voldemort) somewhere in the middle to end of Book 7.

But what if that's not on Rowling's timeline? We're assuming the whole point of the books is Harry & the good guys v. Voldemort. What if Voldemort becomes obsolete in Book 6? Or Book 5? What if something bigger and greater replaces him?

On my show Alias, the first season tricked viewers into thinking that the whole point of the show was to take down SD-6 (an evil intelligence agency). So in the middle of season 2 what do the writers do? They destroy SD-6, and leave fans wondering "What on earth is next?" Well, they showed us what was next. Something new and exciting.. a new chapter, so to speak.

It's like the Matrix, we're living in a dream world where we expect Rowling to operate by certain rules of fantasy writing. But it's not so: she doesn't have to wait until the last book to kill the bad guy. Who says the students will even still be at Hogwarts throughout the series? Maybe they'll have to close the school. We can't imagine the books not following a certain formula, but we have to, or we're gonna be in for a big surprise, I can feel it. :D

Free your mind.... ;)

[Seriphus]

Nice idea. I like it. :p

And it's so compatable with the Albus Dumbledore is actually evil theory. ;)

[ChianaWeasley]

:: Chiana grabs her ears::

No! You cant suddenly shift the wizarding world like that!
Jeez! You cant just turn the globe upside can you?!?!
:eek:
Arghh!!!!

:p
;)
:cool:

Actually Im waiting for muggles to find out about the wizarding world. And that takes presidence over Voldemort maybe? There could be a battle between the worlds, muggles are so close minded. It would be segregation of worlds almost.

[Pilgrim Grey]

After a long hiatus, I'm back!!! With a new question and a new theory:

Theory: Snape has been charged with Harry's protection. I thought of this because of the start of COS, surely he's not so psychotic that he'd notice that Harry and Ron weren't at the feast (unless he'd already read the prophet article). Anyway, my theory is, Snape hated James at school, so he's even more PO'ed now that he has to protect his son. So, while he has to protect Harry from any REAL harm (which is why he always seems to be around when anything major happens, like at the end of GOF for example) he still hates him. It's also reasonable to think that he would be in contact with other people to help protect Harry (The Dursleys and mrs Figg), but being friends of Snape they would likely dislike Harry/the Potters as much as he does.
Sorry, that probably didn't make much sense

Anyway, now my question:
Question: Why couldn't James just use Avada Kedavra on Voldy when he come to Godric's Hollow? Did he lose his wand? Was Voldy too quick? Or was it something like what Moody/Crouch said in GOF: you need to practice it, otherwise you couldn't do more than give him a nosebleed?

[Seriphus]

Hadn't Voldy made himself near immortal as well? So it probably wouldn't have killed him. After all when the same spell deflected off Harry he didn't die. James is supposed to have died defending his family so maybe he did try it.

I think it may well be that Snape is in charge of protecting Harry. After all he has his tie to James because James saved his life and Dumbledore tells us in book 3 how important that kind of tie is in the wizarding world. It does seem strange that he noticed Harry was missing in CoS, and he was also there with Dumbledore and McGonagall in book 5 when the saved Harry from Barty Crouch jnr.

I don't think he will have had contact with the Dursleys, as I think Harry would have met him before Hogwarts, but if he is protecting Harry it's likely he is in contact with Mrs Figg, as she's one of the 'old crowd'.

[ChianaWeasley]

Well my answer to your question about James is this;
Ok, the spell for noone to see Potters was broken when PETER PETTIGREW...that little:mad: ....told his "master" Voldemort a.k.a
'He-Who-must-not-Be-Named' about their hiding place. Harry parents probably didn't realize their spell was broken, and that Peter that little....:mad: ...had betrayed them. So suddenly in Godric Hollow, in the middle of the night voldemort shows up unexpectedly. They had no warning, he probably did not even give them a chance to arm themselves. He most likey didn't fight failry to begin with. James and Lily had no idea that voldemort knew where they were. They trusted Pettigrew to tell noone :( even though they shouldn't have. But just think of the whole scene....

the potters have just put Harry down for bed, Lily and James were probably either in the same room(the livingroom) or Lily was in Harry's room and James was in the living room. They believe their safe, but alas. Suddenly the door is blown open, and Voldemort comes in. James grabs his wand, but Voldemort is faster and performs the Avada Kedavra spell. James is dead, Lily has heard the comotion in the other room. She grabs Harry, both of her hands full with her child she has her wand somewhere else(pocket or the bed side). Voldemort blasts into the room, Lily places Harry in his cribs quickly and begs Voldemort not to kill her child. She still has no wand, Voldemort heartlessly performs the unforgivable curse. He then turns to Harry lying in the crib, attempts the spell on the unarmed infant...but alas his curse is turned back upon him. And nearly destroys himself, Harry is left with only a lightning scar upon his forehead.

Lily and James had no time, they had no warning.
:( :( :( :(

God! I HATE Peter Pettigrew!!!!!!!:mad:

[Elfëa]

Agree with you Colli - it's a possiblity we often forget. (Yes, I'm finally back online...) :D

[angleet]

Chiana: I believe it happened something close to that, but someone check PoA - while flashing back when the dementors were near, didn't Harry 'hear' his father say something like 'Take Harry and Run' to Lilly. So there was a little time, but not much.

[ChianaWeasley]

Yeah, well still dont you think that they were caught unaware?

[Severus Snape]

If Peter Pettigrew pre-warned them that his master He-who-must-not-be-named was comming for them... you would think that James and Lilly would have fleed from their village and tried to find a safe place for baby Harry.

At a time when nobody could trust anyone... and Hogwarts was the only safe place for any wizard... you would think that they wouldn't have trusted Peter Pettigrew with their location.

[Ravenclaw]

Before I say what I'm planning to say, let me just say this.

With all the speculation we do, it's gotta be hard for JKR to come up with something to surprise us, poor woman. I don't think she'd think people would read so much into these books! Though now, I think she has an idea, with all its publicity...

OK, Now...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Severus Snape
Peter Pettigrew pre-warned them that his master He-who-must-not-be-named was comming for them... you would think that James and Lilly would have fleed from their village and tried to find a safe place for baby Harry.

First of all, Lily and James had to trust someone with their location... something to do with the secret keeper spell, i don't know... At least, that's the impression I got. Secondly, I don't think Pettigrew would prewarn the people his master was coming for, especially if he told his master they were there.
It just doesn't make sense to me. I agree with Chianna.

Colli: Nice theory. But realize this: Alias is a TV show. It has to go on. The public gets board if they deal with the same villain all the time. And they get annoyed when the heros try-- and fail-- so many times to destroy this villain. True, HP is much the same, but it's not as long as a TV show which almost never ends. HP has an ending, a timeline. I mean, on Buffy (yes, BtvS adict here, I'm sorry) it was the same way-- There's a new villain every season. The Master, Spike, the Mayor/Faith, Adam, Glory, etc.

They have to keep the audiance guessing and satisfied at the same time without having to end the series.

Sorry, just nitpicking

[Severus Snape]

Originally posted by Ravenclaw
Before I say what I'm planning to say, let me just say this.

With all the speculation we do, it's gotta be hard for JKR to come up with something to surprise us, poor woman. I don't think she'd think people would read so much into these books! Though now, I think she has an idea, with all its publicity...

OK, Now...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Severus Snape
Peter Pettigrew pre-warned them that his master He-who-must-not-be-named was comming for them... you would think that James and Lilly would have fleed from their village and tried to find a safe place for baby Harry.

First of all, Lily and James had to trust someone with their location... something to do with the secret keeper spell, i don't know... At least, that's the impression I got. Secondly, I don't think Pettigrew would prewarn the people his master was coming for, especially if he told his master they were there.
It just doesn't make sense to me. I agree with Chianna.

Colli: Nice theory. But realize this: Alias is a TV show. It has to go on. The public gets board if they deal with the same villain all the time. And they get annoyed when the heros try-- and fail-- so many times to destroy this villain. True, HP is much the same, but it's not as long as a TV show which almost never ends. HP has an ending, a timeline. I mean, on Buffy (yes, BtvS adict here, I'm sorry) it was the same way-- There's a new villain every season. The Master, Spike, the Mayor/Faith, Adam, Glory, etc.

They have to keep the audiance guessing and satisfied at the same time without having to end the series.

Sorry, just nitpicking

You MIS-quoted me. I said: QUOTE]Originally posted by Severus Snape
*IF*Peter Pettigrew pre-warned them that his master He-who-must-not-be-named was comming for them... you would think that James and Lilly would have fleed from their village and tried to find a safe place for baby Harry.

You're right... he wouldn't dare defy his master.

[Colli]

Nitpicking is fine :)

Colli: Nice theory. But realize this: Alias is a TV show. It has to go on. The public gets board if they deal with the same villain all the time. And they get annoyed when the heros try-- and fail-- so many times to destroy this villain. True, HP is much the same, but it's not as long as a TV show which almost never ends. HP has an ending, a timeline. I mean, on Buffy (yes, BtvS adict here, I'm sorry) it was the same way-- There's a new villain every season. The Master, Spike, the Mayor/Faith, Adam, Glory, etc.

They have to keep the audiance guessing and satisfied at the same time without having to end the series.


First, many tv shows, especially the classier one-hour ones, do follow a basic timeline for at least a season or two in advance. They just leave the very end open to deal with ratings and cancellation and such. :)

But yeah, tv does work differently than a definite 7-book series, but who's to say that we know what the HP timeline is? That's all I'm saying, is that we're sitting back expecting Voldemort to stick around to book 7 and then get killed... but we're definitely not seeing the entire picture. There could easily be an evil 100 times greater than him, and I can imagine Jo trying to catch fans off guard by getting rid of Voldemort much earlier than expected. :)

[Ravenclaw]

EEP! I'm sorry Severus!:o that was my bad.

Yes, Colli, just because I pointed out that changing villains midway through a series is more television than book, doesn't mean I don't like where you're going with your theory. ;-)

I swear, we've thought of practically everything... But I bet JKR will write the one thing we haven't guessed. She has a knack for doing that.

[Severus Snape]

Thanks for your apology, Ravenclaw!

[lithorose]

This all reminds me of the hype surrounding the end of B5 back in the day...tons of people would send JMS (the show's creator) emails with their theories (he had the ending planned out from the beginning and even filmed the episode a season early in case the show was cancelled). Anyway, he said one person guessed it, everyone else was way off...

[Seriphus]

The thing with the HP books is that we can look back and wonder how we didn't see what was coming, but she doesn't quite give us enough information until the twists actually happen.

And Colli's idea of what might happen next is one of the best I've heard. :)

[Colli]

Eep, thanks. :o Just trying to think outside the box.

I'd talk about what just happened on the Alias season finale, but you all would get really bored. ;) Plot twists galore... Syd waking up in the middle of Hong Kong two years later than when she remembers going to sleep, Vaughn's married. *sigh*

[Ravenclaw]

I've a question... Did we ever answer "who was gonna take Wood's place on the quidditch team?" If not, I have it, along with info on the DADA teacher (forgive me if you've seen this... I'm never up to date on news things...)







Entertainment Weekly said...

Short 'Order'


Plot details from the next ''Harry Potter'' book -- Scholastic's new catalogue offers details, from Quidditch to Harry's nightmares by Gary Susman



HE WHAT?! Even Daniel Radcliffe is aghast at Harry's fate in book five


J.K. Rowling would probably rather utter the name of the evil Lord He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named than leak details of the plot of the upcoming fifth installment in her ''Harry Potter'' series. Nonetheless, Scholastic, the American publisher of ''Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix,'' has let spill a few Every Flavor Beans about the book, due in stores June 21. According to the BBC, the tidbits are revealed in Scholastic's new promotional catalog, and they offer a few meager hints about what will happen during Harry's fifth year at Hogwarts.

Among the details, according to the catalog: Harry confronts ''the unreliability of government and the impotence of the authorities at Hogwarts.'' (Gee, that sounds familiar.) The new professor of defense against the dark arts -- a position whose job security is lower than that of Spinal Tap's drummers or J. Lo's husbands -- has a personality ''like poisoned honey.'' (Um, that sounds familiar, too.) Good news for Harry's pal Ron Weasley: He's the new keeper on Gryffindor's Quidditch team. Most noteworthy: Harry has recurring bad dreams about a door in a silent hallway that is ''more terrifying than every other nightmare combined.'' The book jacket illustration seems to depict Harry facing this same nocturnal hallway. And that's probably all we'll get, until June 21.

[Severus Snape]

Heh! The boy's having nightmares.

I've had a few in my day. :eek:

[Elfëa]

Raven - I think those have been discussed as spoilers???? I mean, behind the tags? ;)

But I like how they've put the poisoned honey thing... :p

[Kristin]

"The new professor of defense against the dark arts -- a position whose job security is lower than that of Spinal Tap's drummers...."

:rotfl: I can just see the next DADA teacher lasting a year before being killed in a bizarre gardening accident.

[Elfëa]

Including bees and honey ;)

[Pilgrim Grey]

On the old 'why is it significant that Harry's eyes are green?' question:
I noticed something while reading POA a while back: green is not just for evil/slytherin etc: The Ministry of Magic drivers that pick Harry et al up to get to King's Cross wear a green uniform! Significant? Probably not, but I still think it's interesting.

[Seriphus]

On the subject of eyes, I was wondering whether black eyes have any significance. Hagrid and Snape are both described as having black eyes, which I've always found a bit strange. Maybe it's something to do with being half-something, be it giant or vampire. ;) I think Sirius may have black eyes as well, I can't remember. And I wonder what colour Remus' are?I noticed something while reading POA a while back: green is not just for evil/slytherin etc: The Ministry of Magic drivers that pick Harry et al up to get to King's Cross wear a green uniform! Significant? Probably not, but I still think it's interesting. Anything could be significant in these books! It's a good thought. I wouldn't be surprised if James had some connexion to the Ministry.

[ChianaWeasley]

I remember watching Oprah when the Rupert,Daniel, and Emma were on for CoS. And there was this boy who is ill, and writes poetry. He's been on the show a few times, and Oprah invited him back to meet the cast. I wish I could remember his name...but back to my story...he also fluently keeps in touch with J.K. Rowling. And Oprah spoke with J.K. about some of his predictions, and J.K. said they were scarily close to what she had written.

The one theory that he has that is most catching is, muggles will somehow find out about the world of wizards and they will begin to leak in. And that it will cause all sort of problems.

If that is very close to what Rowling has planned for the next few books...just think.

What all could happen? :eek:

Thats a brain tickler if you ask me :)

[Pilgrim Grey]

interesting point Chiana, and one that I definietely hadn't thought of...

New question: why wasn't Malfoy affected by the Veela at the world cup? Did he close his eyes and block his ears, like Harry eventually did, and we just aren't told, or does Malfoy not swing that way? Maybe there's something more to those fan fictions I've heard about :eek: :barf:

[Severus Snape]

I can't recall... was Draco affected?

[ChianaWeasley]

I think it was one of those instances where J.K. just doesn't say. She was really focused on Harry and ron ten to one she just forgot about Malfoy.

That my guess anyway :)

[owl]

Perhaps Draco already knew what was going to happen. His father always has been one step ahead all the way through the books.Lucius must have told Malfoy before or something 'cause he couldn't have known otherwise , could he?
Anyway Harry is a more important character than Malfoy will ever be so I wouldn't worry about Malfoy too much.
Oh,and Chiana Weasley is an excellent name.
Me:notworthy Harry

[Severus Snape]

Owl... Are you insane? They're both important and we'd all like to know!

*sneers at owl*

[ChianaWeasley]

lol, lesson of the day Owl. :LOL: Draco and Lucius are just as important and hot as the rest of the characters. oh, and Snape too. Me thinks you just need to watch what you type ;)

[Severus Snape]

Originally posted by ChianaWeasley
lol, lesson of the day Owl. :LOL: Draco and Lucius are just as important and hot as the rest of the characters. oh, and Snape too. Me thinks you just need to watch what you type ;)

Well said ChianaWeasley :)

My apologies owl!

[ChianaWeasley]

Ok, I was reading GoF last night on my couch, minding my own business. When I went over the lines of dumbeldore that for once caught my eye....

"Only this morning I took a wrong turning on my way to the bathroom and found myself in a beautifully proportioned room I have never seen before, containing a really magnificent collection of chamber pots. When I went back to investigate more closely, I discovered that the room had vanished. but I must keep an eye out for it.Possibly it is only accessible at five-thrity in the morning.Or it may only appear at the quarter moon-or when the seeker has an exceptionally full bladder."

He is actually helping Harry with the next clue!!

But before that Moody says,

I've been telling dumbledore from the start, he can be as high minded as he likes, but you can bet old Karkaroff and Maxime wont be."

:confused:

[Colli]

Call me naive, but how does that help Harry? :confused:

[Severus Snape]

Originally posted by Colli
Call me naive, but how does that help Harry? :confused:

I've got to agree with Colli... How's that helpful? I don't recall... was he telling Harry that it's acceptable to cheat and don't expect the rest to be as honourable as Albus Dumbldore so cheat along with the rest of'em?

[lizz]

Chiana did you mean the bathroom as a hint. Go to the bathroom as a clue for Harry? And Moodys statement, well the others will cheat so lets cheat too?

[Severus Snape]

Moody/Barty must have come from the Slytherin house when/if he was a student at Hogwarts. :confused:

[ChianaWeasley]

Sorry to be so unclear, but I meant this;

First Moody says that dumbledore doesnt believe that the other school headmasters will cheat. He can think all he wants, but they are going to cheat. Meaning, dumbledore doesn't beleive in cheating at the tournament.

But then he mentions the bathroom, and says maybe its only open when a seeker(being harry) has a full bladder. Then he winks at him and walks off.

I think he was giving harry a hint, later on we find out that harry must go to the prefects bathroom to decipher the mystery of the egg. By putting it under water.

But my question is, why did he help harry? When he feels that cheating is wrong?

does it make more sense this time? LOL, i got alittle bit over excited:o

[Colli]

:) I'm still not entirely convinced Dumbledore was helping Harry by making that statement, but that's a nice observation!

Dumbledore's been known to make odd statements through the books anyway, does making a comment about going to the bathroom seem all that odd? And he said "Go to a bathroom with a full bladder". Harry couldn't've figured out the clue standing in front of a urinal. ;)

[lithorose]

I think it's just coincidence. Dumbledore said he'd never seen the room before. Surely he knew about the Prefect's bathroom and had been there? And he doesnt' mention anything about a bathtub (or whatever it was). And even knowing the other teachers would cheat, I don't think he would cheat himself by helping Harry. Then he'd also have to help Cedric, who's also a Hogwart's Champion.

[ChianaWeasley]

scratches her head
....I guess your right:) It just seemed to catch my eye, I reread the part a couple of times. I saw that he described only urinals and no huge bathtub :o But I figured I must be right
:LOL:

[Colli]

17 days! Can you guys believe it?

[Severus Snape]

Originally posted by Colli
17 days! Can you guys believe it?

I can't! It's torture now that it's getting so close. :)

[Fleur]

17 days!!!! What a lot to look forward to, no more exams, hp finally here and summer at last!

runs around going cucko cucko cucko

[ChianaWeasley]

Who isnt excited that posts on this thread?

I simply cant wait!

[Colli]

Hey Fleur, FleurD, etc: remember the insane asylum we had at the old MI? Where we were plotting to kidnap Rowling and MAKE her write book 5? Muahahaha... seems like ages ago. :) Those were the days! I never thought this day would ever come, where we could say "Order of the Phoenix in two weeks!"

[Moxie]

I'm just bummed that all my friends who read the books have ordered theirs online, so none of them will be going to the bookstore with me. :( But 13 days... woohoo!:D

[Amberion]

Moxie I will be at the bookstore to pick up copies for myself and legolass so I will be with you in spirit

[ChianaWeasley]

Aw...dont worry Moxie...like Amberion said they'll all be with you in spirit:D

[Aliela]

Same here! I'm with you, Moxie. My mom refuses to pre-order me a copy online...:( grrr... so I gotta go to the bookstore myself. But it doesn't matter. I'm just glad the wait is almost over! Yay!

[Severus Snape]

Unfortunately I can't pre-order either.... I have to wait till the paycheck arrives. :(

[ChianaWeasley]

We went to barnes and noble today to preorder our copy of OoTP, but the salesperson said it might not be there the night of the grand arrival!!!
:eek:
Someone has plotted against me!
Curses!!!!
:mad:

;)

[Kristin]

:eek: No! Really? (I can't tell if you're being serious because of the ;)) If it really isn't there the day of ... I can't even find words for how rotten it is. :mad:


Amazon.com has promised full refunds to anyone who doesn't get their copy on the 21st. (Not sure if it applies to Europe, qleap.)

[ChianaWeasley]

I will be very angry, if it is NOT there, even after a preordered it! It may be differant if I just showed up and expected to get one and they ran out. But I PREORDERED!!!!

....mumble.....grumble.....
:mad:

[Colli]

I know we've mentioned this before.. but I don't know if this particular point has ever been made.

Anyway, I'm rereading The Sorceror's Stone in anticipation of this weekend, and I came across a very familiar quote.
Hagrid, talking about Voldemort
Dunno if he had enough human left in him to die
After Voldemort's revival in Goblet of Fire, we see him as a million-times-scarier immortal figure, but that's probably far from the truth. Consider this... Voldemort has Peter Pettigrew, his father, AND Harry in him. "Flesh, blood, and bone", which, besides the spirit (which Voldie already had), mostly comprise a human being. Does Voldie have enough human in him to die now? I would say, yes he does, and although I *love* our previous theory of a Harry/Voldemort fight-to-the-death, I say now it doesn't really matter.

Dumbledore's gleam of triumpth, anyone? Now, it came immediately after Harry's telling him about Voldemort taking his blood, but he would have also just told him about the other two components to the spell.

So, in my opinion, the semi-immortal state Voldemort achieved by drinking the unicorn blood has been cancelled out by the fact that he has three very human components to him, two of which are from people still very much alive.

Which (i just can't stop ;)) brings me to Peter Pettigrew. This is a completely random and probably rash shot in the dark, but what if HE kills Voldemort? He owes Harry one, remember? I can imagine Voldemort turning Pettigrew loose to get rid of him, because he's in Potter's debt, and a whole string of things happening (including Lupin's death :() which would bring

OOOOH I just thought of something.

Wow!!

*really excited*

I'm sorry, I need to look into this before I forget, I'll finish later. ;)

(edit) Ok, here's what I have so far.

Judas betrayed Jesus (innocent blood) by giving up his “hiding place” (the Garden of Gethsemane), in return he was paid 30 pieces of silver. After the men had gone and found Jesus, Judas felt remorse and tried to return the silver, but the chief priests and elders refused. Judas left the money and fled, hanging himself. The chief priest and elders took the silver and bought a field, Potter’s Field, as a burial place for strangers, which became known as the Field of Blood, because it was the price of blood that bought it.

Peter Pettigrew betrayed the Potters (innocent blood) by giving up their “hiding place” (Godric’s Hollow), in return (after a LOONG time) he was paid with a silver hand. The rest of the story we don’t know yet.

So what if Peter, in debt to Harry, is filled with remorse and leaves Voldemort? He almost seems to cowardly to do so, but it fits, doesn’t it? He obviously can’t return the silver hand, but he could try to kill Voldemort. Maybe. Hang on, I’m rambling again. Where does “Potter’s Field” fit in with all this? The name connection, for one thing. Maybe we need to read OotP before we get enough information to prove or disprove this theory.

Ideas? Comments?

[lithorose]

Hm. Not too sure about the last part of the theory, though the Potter's Field thing is an interesting correlation. Pettigrew does seem too cowardly to betray Voldemort, even though he may want to, like how Judas was too cowardly to ask for forgiveness for betraying Jesus, and hanged himself instead.

I like the idea that now he has enough human in him to die.

[Pilgrim Grey]

Hmm "Harry Potter and the Field of Blood"... sounds like a good name for the 7th book... But I think JKR would shy away from using Christian mythology/history (however way you look at it) because she's disliked enough by the Christain fanatics already. I think we need to look in Greek drama/mythology and Shakespeare for the answers...
Hmm, maybe Voldy had three daughters, and two of them betrayed him, becoming independant dark witches for themselves, except for one, Lily, who eventually got turned to the side of good...

Or maybe Voldy killed his family because he had an Oedipus complex... hmmmm...

;) :D

[Colli]

I dunno, she seems eager to grab mythology wherever she can. She even uses Christian names, Peter and Cornelius (which means "horn-colored"... hmm... yellow ;))... and I'm sure more but I'm way too lazy to think about it more. Plus it's 8 AM.

Lith, I liked the human enough to die part too... and the fact that the field is called Potter's Field. :D I kinda made up a lot of it on the spur of the moment, so a lot of my "theories" are somewhat half-baked. ;)

[ChianaWeasley]

I dont know, but I'm very put out with the Christian 'angry villagers with pitchforks' ruotine. Really, all she did was write a book. And I might add, has boasted todays youth enthusiasm for reading! She deserves so much more credit than they give her.

Your very right, it was a good line. But when he was recreated by Pettigrew at the end of book four, he had a human body. Maybe somehow the spell used returned him to his almost human form.

I dunno.....very puzzling:) but then again thats the fun of it :D

[Moxie]

Originally posted by Colli
...a lot of my "theories" are somewhat half-baked. ;)

Maybe, but that doesn't mean they're not valid. Whether or not JKR is consciously counting the Christian Bible among her many mythological sources, if her religious upbringing was anything like what most people I know here in the US underwent she would have several years of Bible study in her memory, and that tends to have lasting effects even among those of us who don't remain Christian. I occasionally find myself using metaphors or other figures of speech of Biblical origin, and notice the same tendency in most other Pagans I know who were baptized Christians as children. I doubt HP will end up a straight Christian allegory (and hope not, considering I never cared for the Narnia books, even as a child) but would not at all be surprised if some of your theories turn out quite close to the mark.

Regarding your theory of Voldemort's death - this has been a hotly contested matter in the Moxie household (especially considering spouse hasn't read the books, only seen the movies and listened to my ranting). My thought is that Rowling might hesitate to bloody the hands of Harry or another purely "good" character, and that Voldemort's end is more likely to display "evil turning in upon itself" - the actual Voldie-bane could be one of the Death Eaters, past or present (Peter? Snape? someone with ambitions of taking over as Dark Lord?), or a creature V. has used in his forces (a dementor perhaps?) spouse argues that Harry has already killed the Basilisk so JKR has already bloodied his hands and will likely do so again.

[ChianaWeasley]

Your right, she has made Harry kill. but only when it was to save ginny Weasley's life, as well as the rest of the muggle born wizards he could have destroyed. If he does kill again I think it will be Voldemort or Pettigrew. but then again he doesnt have the heart to kill, he only did it to save someone he cares for.

Ok let me get my thoughts together.....

alright. Harry has killed yes. But if he were to do it again, it would be in circumstances that were different. Going against voldemort for example

Gah so hard to put into words
:cool:

[Athelas]

Moxie-
I think your spouse's theory doesn't wash simply because the basilisk isn't human. To me, there is a big difference. But we'll know soon about Book 5!

[ChianaWeasley]

oh yes!!! Book number five, Order of The Pheonix.....

:D

How delightful

[Avada Kedavra]

i've often wondered these things too! im new to the sight... hullo all. anyway.

why does dumbledore get a twinkle in his eye??

this one has been driving me insane!!!

so thats really all i got right now. i havn't finished otp yet, so im not worthy of anything else to say. (don't flip- im at camp. i actually skipped dinner to read, and i read by the little sliver of light that comes in the window after lights out)

[ChianaWeasley]

:wave:

Why hello, Avada Kedavra!!!

Who I do not know in any way...
runs of to her getaway pirate ship

Welcome to the informer :)

:arrr:

[Colli]

About Harry and being/becoming a

metamorphmagus

What if he already is one? Or at least some form of one, and hasn't realized it? Surely you all don't forget him causing his hair to grow back when he had that awful haircut? I know he attributes that to random, unfocused magic, but you never know.

Anyway, it's not terribly likely, but it IS an interesting connection. :)

[jesuisalleeaujardin]

Originally posted by Colli
About Harry and being/becoming a

metamorphmagus

What if he already is one? Or at least some form of one, and hasn't realized it? Surely you all don't forget him causing his hair to grow back when he had that awful haircut? I know he attributes that to random, unfocused magic, but you never know.

Anyway, it's not terribly likely, but it IS an interesting connection. :)

ack... could be! wouldn't that be really kewl... and i wonder why rowling took lengths to explain what that is, and to sirus' cousin and... if he could learn how to become one :)... then again, we could say that harry was just really interested in tonks that way coz she was one of the first ones from the magical world that he was reunited with :). ...

that dark scene the first time harry was escorted by the order of the phoenix outside his house to grimmauld place _ that was magical. :) totally shows the difference between muggle and magical world. ...

http://www.smilies.org/basesmilies3/voxel63.gif

jardin

[froments]

Hello all. I don't usually post, but I just had a thought (don't tell anyone, they'd go ballistic :p)).

How old is Voldemort in relation to Harry's parents? Did they know each other in school? Did something go on during their time at Hogwarts that Rowling hasn't told us about? Or did Riddle just miss them by a few years?

Just curious.:o

[Marchwarden]

Originally posted by froments
Hello all. I don't usually post, but I just had a thought (don't tell anyone, they'd go ballistic :p)).

How old is Voldemort in relation to Harry's parents? Did they know each other in school? Did something go on during their time at Hogwarts that Rowling hasn't told us about? Or did Riddle just miss them by a few years?

Just curious.:o

Tom Riddle graduated and left Hogwarts 37 years before Harry was born. Although we don't yet know precisely how old James and Lily were when they had Harry, the implication was that they were fairly young. Most likely, neither had yet been born when Riddle departed.

[Pilgrim Grey]

I want to know how Lucius knew that Sirius was an animagus, and that he could turn into a dog... hmm, a mole somewhere perhaps?

[Marchwarden]

Originally posted by Pilgrim Grey
I want to know how Lucius knew that Sirius was an animagus, and that he could turn into a dog... hmm, a mole somewhere perhaps?

No, a rat. ;)

[Pippin]

:LOL: March.


I have a question of my own...


Did Voldemort KNOW what the Prophecy said about Harry and himself? If yes, why did he so desperately have to get his hands on it? If no, how did he know in the first place (fourteen years ago) that he had to go after Harry and kill him?


I get the feeling I´m overlooking something very simple and obvious here… but did he know? How? If he didn´t know what the prophecy said, how did he know it existed at all?


I knew there was something fishy about this Prophecy... :rolleyes:

[lizz]

He only knew parts of the prohesy, thats why he went to kill Harry and why he now wants to have the full prophesy

[Pippin]

Oh right, of course one of the DE overheard the prophecy and passed on to Voldemort what he´d heard. Obviously enough for Voldemort to know he had to kill at least one of the boys if he wanted to survive... so what was the part of the prophecy he DIDN`T hear? And will that have any significance as to how the story turns out in the end?


I wonder who the DE that overheard the prophecy was. I wonder if it was Wormtail, who of course had the power to betray the Potters to Voldemort.

[swiftsnowmane]

Sorry, this is off-topic for the moment....

Bellatrix Lestrange is out of Azkaban, but where is her husband? Did he die in prison, or was he one of the ones who recently escaped? ( I can't remember right now and I don't have my book with me.) If he escaped, where is he? Unless he was with the others in the Department of Mysteries and I just missed something.:rolleyes: I'm not really going anywhere with this, I just wanted to know where he is.

[Kristin]

I was wondering that, too.

GoF refers to "the Lestranges" (plural). But OotP makes no mention (that I noticed) of anyone other than Bellatrix.

Sirius does say that Bellatrix made a nice pure-blood marriage (or something like that). I don't think it's ever said what happened to her husband. :confused:

[swiftsnowmane]

Well, I think we know that he WENT to Azkaban (I'm pretty sure Harry sees them both in the pensieve in GoF), but did he come out? If so, where is he? Is he even a force to be reckoned with, or is Bellatrix the stronger one? (Its making me nervous not knowing where a potential Death Eater is....I'm so paranoid.:p )

[jesuisalleeaujardin]

Originally posted by Pippin
Did Voldemort KNOW what the Prophecy said about Harry and himself? If yes, why did he so desperately have to get his hands on it? If no, how did he know in the first place (fourteen years ago) that he had to go after Harry and kill him?

pippin... don't think voldie knows what exactly was said in prophecy, else he wouldn't have baited harry into getting it for him at the dept of mysteries. :p

as for bellatrix's hubby... swiftsnowmane, you're right that he might be a force to be reckoned with, because while he wasn't mentioned in this episode in harry's life, he's still a death eater, and could still be doing other things that could bring about the big V's full strength. book 6 needsta hurry up. ...

jardin

[Moxie]

Originally posted by swiftsnowmane
Well, I think we know that he WENT to Azkaban (I'm pretty sure Harry sees them both in the pensieve in GoF), but did he come out? If so, where is he? Is he even a force to be reckoned with, or is Bellatrix the stronger one? (Its making me nervous not knowing where a potential Death Eater is....I'm so paranoid.:p )

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you ;) CONSTANT VIGILANCE!

In Dumbledore's Pensieve in Book 4, Harry saw the trial of the Longbottoms' torturers; Mr. Lestrange would have been either the "thickset man who stared blankly up at Crouch" or the "thinner and more nervous-looking man, whose eyes were darting around the crowd" (we know the other two were Barty Crouch Jr. and Bellatrix). Either way, Bellatrix gave the impression of having been the leader and most formidable of the lot. Rodolphus Lestrange probably was one of the nine wizards who escaped with Bellatrix; the only names given besides hers (in the Daily Prophet article about the breakout) were Antonin Dolohov and Augustus Rookwood, but all ten escapees were described as Death Eaters - "Voldemort's worst supporters," according to Hermione, who we know likes to read history books. ;)

[Pippin]

Good thoughts on Mr Lestrange… I thought that the two men at the pensieve trial (apart from Bella and Crouch Jr) were him and his brother, wasn´t it mentioned somewhere in OotP that the fourth convicted DE was his brother? Of course we don´t know which is which, going by the description.

And of course, if we assume he escaped from Azkaban in the mass escape with his wife, a very disturbing theory I have about Bella and Voldemort wouldn´t really work. :eek: :o


I think it´s somehow cool that in this case the woman seems to be the more powerful, the more dangerous of the couple. I like JKR´s gender equality, even if she expresses it by painting all these really eeeeevil women extra black.



I have another question: So Mr and Mrs Weasley weren´t in the Order during the first war against Voldemort (Lupin says so in the “Woes of Mrs Weasley” chapter). But at the end of GoF, the Weasleys seem to be deep in Dumbledore´s confidence. He asks Molly if he can count on her, and she says yes of course. So, what´s been going on there? Since when have the Weasley´s been Dumbledore´s special friends and alleys, and what made them that?

[Helenia]

Originally posted by Pilgrim Grey
I want to know how Lucius knew that Sirius was an animagus, and that he could turn into a dog... hmm, a mole somewhere perhaps?

I assume that Pettigrew told Voldemort - Voldie knows that he is an Animagus, and Voldie told the DEs after he rose again. Just a guess.

[Pilgrim Grey]

Hmmm, that's a good point, why weren't the Weasley's in the original Order? It can't have been because they were too young, because we know that they're older than the Potters were (Molly says that the Whomping Willow was planted after she left), so I'd say it's probably because they weren't aurors (although we still don't know whether everyone else in the Order were necessarily aurors). I'd say the reason Dumbledore knows and trusts the Weasley's now is because all nine of them went to Hogwarts, and they've all stood out some how (Quidditch captain, head boy, trouble maker etc.) so they would probably have become good friends. Dumbledore and Arthur also share the same attitudes about muggles, which would also have contributed in them becoming firends

[Marchwarden]

Originally posted by swiftsnowmane
Sorry, this is off-topic for the moment....

Bellatrix Lestrange is out of Azkaban, but where is her husband? Did he die in prison, or was he one of the ones who recently escaped? ( I can't remember right now and I don't have my book with me.) If he escaped, where is he? Unless he was with the others in the Department of Mysteries and I just missed something.:rolleyes: I'm not really going anywhere with this, I just wanted to know where he is.

In GoF, Voldemort says that the Lestranges are both in Azkaban, and that they will be freed. The implication is that Rudolphus Lestrange was one of the ten escapees, that he may very well have been one of the masked DEs who invaded the ministry in OotP, and that we hear little about him because he is the Celeborn of the Wizarding World, much as Celeborn is the Denis Thatcher of Middle-Earth.;)

[lizz]

I think rodolphus Lestrange was actually in the fight in the ministry, doesnt Lucius at some point say, rodolphus you go to that room looking for them?


Maybe the Wealseys werent in the order but helping all the same? Or maybe they were in the order at the beginning but had to leave because of the children. After all when the Potters were attacked they had 6 children.

[Kristin]

Marchwarden, at first I thought you wrote he is Celeborn instead of he is the Celeborn.... :LOL:


Hmmm... I'll have to look up that reference to Rodolphus. Very interesting if it's there (but I don't have my book on me now).

The Potters had six children? :confused:

[swiftsnowmane]

LoL, she meant the Weasleys had six children at the time of the Potters' deaths.:D

[Pippin]

by lizz
I think Rodolphus Lestrange was actually in the fight in the ministry, doesnt Lucius at some point say, rodolphus you go to that room looking for them? Exactly lizz, I looked it up. The kids hear Lucius´ Malfoy´s voice through one of the doors as he orders the DE around, and he says "Bellatrix, Rodolphus ..." so he was there alright.

by Marchwarden
he is the Celeborn of the Wizarding World :LOL: March, you crack me up. Can I put that in my sig? :D



Very logical thoughts on the Weasleys, PG - well, there´s probably no special or secret tie between them and Dumbledore, other than the obvious.


I´d like to know if there are any special requirements for being in the Order (cause I want to join :D), apart from being of age and having left school. You don´t have to be an Auror (technically I mean - they´re all Auror´s at heart of course :)), look at all the teachers, the ministry workers, bank employees, petty criminals, half giants and werewolves in there. ;) Someone says in OotP that it´s useful to have Aurors and ministry employees but that´s in no way the norm in the Order. Which I like, it´s democratic. Everyone who wants to join can be given something to do.

[Marchwarden]

Here are my questions:

Why is the Ravenclaw mascot an eagle and not a raven?

Why is the Gryffindor a lion and not a griffin?

[Pippin]

Originally posted by Marchwarden
Why is the Ravenclaw mascot an eagle and not a raven?
Is it? Does it say so anywhere? The bird on the Hogwarts crest in my books looks not specifically like an eagle, just a big bird.


Why is the Gryffindor a lion and not a griffin? In mythology, the griffin is, I hope I´m getting this right, a creature with a lion´s body but an eagle´s head. So chosing a lion for a mascot is fair enough.



Why is the Hufflepuff mascot a badger, then? :D

[Pilgrim Grey]

I'm pretty sure that the Ravenclaw mascot is an eagle, but I have no idea where it says that. Probably in PS when JKR first explains the houses (when Harry gets to Hogwarts, or maybe when Hagrid's explaining them to Harry)

[Bellatrix_Lestrange]

The house heraldry, including color schemes, is given in GoF, during the welcoming-feast scene.

[Mirdan]

Originally posted by Marchwarden
Why is the Gryffindor a lion and not a griffin?
maybe it has something to do with being lionhearted -- something that Godric Gryffindor himself seemed to have prized above all other qualities.

EDIT
here's an indication of the kind of bird that graces Ravenclaw's herald: in OotP, aside from owning a roaring lion headgear, Luna also made an eagle one...complete with a pair of flapping wings :cool:

[Colli]

I didn't want to start a new thread, and it's not really a book 5 topic, so I'm going to put the following here:

Do you think in The Sorcerer's Stone when the centaurs were reading the stars, they read that Voldie is meant to kill Harry?

I mean, it seems kinda obvious, but the idea needs elaboration. Bane was angry with Firenze for "setting himself against the heavens" i.e., saving Harry's life in contradiction to whatever it is the stars were telling them. They've more than likely predicted among themselves that Voldemort is meant to kill Harry, but my guess is they don't know when (see part in bold below)

They also have predicted a coming war, which we know from the "Mars is bright tonight" comments in TSS and the follow excerpt from OotP.
The Order of the Phoenix, The Centaur and the Sneak
"We watch the skies for the great tides of evil or change that are sometimes marked there. It may take ten years to be sure of what we are seeing."

Firenze pointed to the red star directly above Harry.

"In the past decade, the indications have been that Wizard-kind is living through nothing more than a brief calm between two wars. Mars, bringer of battle, shines (Question: how does a planet SHINE?) brightly above us, suggesting that the fight must break out again soon. How soon, centaurs may attempt to divine by the burning of certain herbs and leaves, by the observation of fume and flame.
But Firenze also says in both TSS and OotP that centaurs have been wrong before. When do you think that wrong interpretation was? It has to be significant, if Rowling brought it up in two different books.

Does this mean that Voldemort will emerge the victor of the Voldie/Harry pair? Or will false interpretation of the stars allow Harry to live a long life in bachelorhood before sailing (er-passing) beyond the veil?

(In another interesting (and possibly meaningless) note, TSS notes that Firenze has "astonishingly blue eyes, like pale sapphires." The stone sapphire means "wisdom.")

[Pilgrim Grey]

And could the blue eyes have anything to do with Harry/Lily's GREEN eyes??? (probably not, but it's fun to speculate :D)

[Seriphus]

(In another interesting (and possibly meaningless) note, TSS notes that Firenze has "astonishingly blue eyes, like pale sapphires." The stone sapphire means "wisdom.") Ah, that ties in with JKR always mentioning Dumbledore's blue eyes.And could the blue eyes have anything to do with Harry/Lily's GREEN eyes??? Maybe. I really want to know why his eyes are significant. (And it had better be good ;) ).

[Kristin]

Planets do shine. When viewed from earth, they look a lot like stars. I believe Venus and Mars are the ones we usually see. I think Mars might even look like a red star. (Not sure on that. Somebody back me up or correct me.)


I want to know what Dumbledore's silver gadget is with the green smoke snake and what he meant when he said, "But in essence divided?" (I don't have the book on me, so I can't quote the exact passage.)

[swiftsnowmane]

Kristin~ You are right about Mars and Venus being visible from Earth. Although Mars is relatively close to us (in astronomical terms) it is a small planet (only about half the size of Earth) and can be mistaken for a just bright reddish star. If I remember correctly, Mars is at its most visible in midsummer, at the end of July (around the time of a certain someone's birthday.;) ) Actually, this summer (2003) Mars is supposed to be the closest that it has been in at least 50,000 years, coming within 35 million miles of Earth.

Venus, Mecury, Jupiter, and Saturn are all visible from Earth as well, though more so at various times of the year than others.

[Moxie]

Originally posted by swiftsnowmane If I remember correctly, Mars is at its most visible in midsummer, at the end of July (around the time of a certain someone's birthday.;) ) Venus, Mecury, Jupiter, and Saturn are all visible from Earth as well, though more so at various times of the year than others.

Planets' visibility and brightness from our perspective vary according to the positions of Earth and the planet in question; since each planet has a different orbital period, the cycles of visibility are more complex than Earth's seasonal cycle. (Astronomical and astrological tables are easily found online, but do not list magnitudes along with where the planets may be found, so I can't tell you offhand whether Mars will in fact be bright tonight. ;))

All the planets you mentioned can be seen with the unaided eye; so, sometimes, can Uranus [insert Ron-like "Uranus" joke here :o] if one has good eyesight and good viewing conditions. A decent telescope will also show Neptune, but only a few telescopes - the ones professional researchers have to schedule obervation times on far in advance - will reveal Pluto (and even then it isn't very impressive; it's barely visible on the photographic plates that proved its existence.)

[swiftsnowmane]

Thanks for clarifying, Moxie. I certainly can't claim to be an expert, just humbly repeating what basic things I remembered....:o

[Lady Haleth]

Question: Did JKR ever mention if Lucius Malfoy was at Hogwarts about the same time as James, Lily, Snape, et al? I'm wondering if maybe he was an upper classman, one of the Slytherin honchos, when Snape was trying to get in with the in crowd? It would help explain why Lucius treats Snape like his personal lap dog (not that he doesn't treat everyone that way) and why Snape appears to favor Draco.

[O/T] (Personal note on astronomy... about a year ago I was fortunate enough to visit the university observatory and was treated to an unforgetable view of Jupiter and Saturn. Yes, they appeared as stars to the eye, but through the telescope I could see 4 Jovian moons (the storm wasn't visible, darn) and the rings of Saturn. It was breathtaking.)[/O/T]

[Colli]

It never actually says.

But I envision Lucius Malfoy as quite a few years older than the Potters, hence his super-influence (i can't imagine a 35- or 40-year old having THAT much influence, can you?). Maybe he was at school with Molly and Arthur Weasley, which would further explain his malice toward that particular family.

[Seriphus]

I'm pretty sure it says somewhere in OotP how old he is because I'd been wondering where he fitted into the scheme of things and IIRC there was something that suggested he was in his 6th or 7th year when Snape and the marauders first joined. I've had a look through, but as I'm not very familiar with the book yet I couldn't find it.

[Moxie]

Originally posted by Lady Haleth
Question: Did JKR ever mention if Lucius Malfoy was at Hogwarts about the same time as James, Lily, Snape, et al?

Not directly, but I recall her telling an interviewer that Snape and Lupin are in their late thirties. In OotP, Lucius Malfoy is 41 (p. 307, US ed.) so he was probably a few years ahead (and already treating everyone around him as servants ;))

[Pippin]

by Lady Haleth
It would help explain why Lucius treats Snape like his personal lap dog (not that he doesn't treat everyone that way) Well, does he?

All we know is that he "speaks highly" of Snape and that Draco says (in CoS) his dad thinks Snape is the best teacher around and should apply for the headmaster´s job.

So who´s being who´s lapdog? :D



I don´t think we´ll find out until we´ve seen Snape and Malfoy sr. in a scene together.

[Lady Haleth]

Lucius wouldn't have such a lofty opinion of Snape if he (Snape) didn't fawn after him (Lucius), or treat Draco so well, or hate Harry so much. I still think Lucius's approval of Snape is only because he thinks he can manipulate him.

[Kristin]

This is rather startling to me. I've read GoF how many times? And I just now noticed something new (or maybe I'm reading it wrong).

From Goblet of Fire, Chapter 1:
(Wormtail and Voldemort speaking, starting with Wormtail)

"... if we proceed, if I murder --"

"If?" whispered the second voice. "If? If you follow the plan, Wormtail, the Ministry need never know that anyone else has died. You will do it quietly and without fuss; I only wish that I could do it myself, but in my present condition ... Come, Wormtail, one more death and our path to Harry Potter is clear. ..."

Who are they talking about killing?! :eek:

It's someone Wormtail has to kill before they get to Harry.

So it's not:

Harry -- because Wormtail is supposed to kill this someone else first.

Frank Bryce (the muggle) -- because at this point in the story, W and V aren't aware of his presence. Besides, his death certainly wouldn't help them get to Harry.

Moody -- because they need to keep him alive for the plan with Crouch, Jr.

Bertha Jorkins -- because she's already dead.

Cedric -- they would have no way of knowing that Cedric would even be an issue.

So who are they talking about? And saying "the Ministry never need know" and "do it quietly and without fuss" implies that the death could have happened without us knowing about it. Or is it just a mistake?

(Well, it's not a major character anyway.)

[Colli]

:o I think I used to have an explanation for this, but it's been so long since I've read GoF that I can't really remember.

But it's 3 AM, so I'm going to sleep on it and get back to you later! :)

[Gimlikins]

This seems to be the appropriate place to post some questions and speculations that have been in my mind since reading OoP. According to the prophesy, the one who can defeat Lord Voldermont will be born to those who have thrice defied him. Since Dumbledore mentioned the Potters and the Longbottoms as the likely targets, I am curious to know more about what those three instances were. When did these acts of defiance happen? while they were at Hogwarts? or did it happen during the course of their work in the order?

I'm also curious to know more about the circumstances surrounding the Longbottoms. Did they know about the prophesy? Did their torture occur before or after the Potters went into hiding? How did Voldermont know to eliminate the Longbottoms as the threat and chose Harry instead? is that why he dispatched deatheaters to torture them instead of personally going after them? or were they tortured for other reasons, i.e. as members of the order and as aurors, they are likely targets for attack. It's possible that they knew information about the Potters that they were unwilling to divulge to Bellatrix and that's why they were tortured.

It's all very confusing, yet interesting. I hope JKR explains more in the next books.

[Kristin]

I don't know whether the Longbottoms knew about the prophecy. And I don't know how the Potters and Longbottoms defied Voldemort. (Good questions, btw.)

But I can answer about their torture.

Bellatrix & co. tortured the Longbottoms after Voldemort lost his powers. They thought the Longbottoms knew where Voldemort was, so they tortured the Longbottoms to reveal it. (It's talked about in Goblet of Fire.)

I guess we don't know why they thought the Longbottoms knew. Or whether the Longbottoms did know. Or whether they revealed anything before they went insane. ... I'd be interested to know...

[Lady Haleth]

Originally posted by Kristin
Who are they talking about killing?! :eek:

I had assumed they were talking about Bertha since she was killed quietly and without a fuss. Maybe they were talking about Sirius? Did they realize that Sirius escaped in order to find and protect Harry?

[lizz]

Pettigrew certainly knew about Sirius. Would be interessting if they wanted to kill him, but it doesnt seem like this in OoTP. Voldemort just used him to get Harry to the Ministry.

I guess they are talking about Crouch senior. After all he could warn the minsitry and he did try to warn them. wormtail let him escape and fake moody killed him.

[Xyla]

Maybe this is a stupid question, but how exactly did Sirius die? What was that archway thing? why could they hear the voices behind it and that connected with Luna's comment implies something about the Wizarding afterlife, which we don't know too much about...
What happens to the wizards that passover?
Mainly, what was that thing that killed Sirius (I don't mean Bellatrix :p) and if they kne it was deadly wouldn't they try to keep the fighting AWAY from the archway???

[Pilgrim Grey]

That's the million dollar question Xy, and nobody has an answer (except JKR, obviously). Plenty of speculation though - mostly in the OOTP reactions and what you want to see in Book 6 threads IIRC :)

[Bellatrix_Lestrange]

Originally posted by Xyla
Maybe this is a stupid question, but how exactly did Sirius die? What was that archway thing? why could they hear the voices behind it and that connected with Luna's comment implies something about the Wizarding afterlife, which we don't know too much about...
What happens to the wizards that passover?
Mainly, what was that thing that killed Sirius (I don't mean Bellatrix :p) and if they kne it was deadly wouldn't they try to keep the fighting AWAY from the archway???

It seemed to me that that was the veil that separates the living world from the afterlife. Luna and Harry can hear the voices for the same reason they can see thestrels; they've been touched by death, and have an emotional connection to people who've passed on.

I just wish that, if the Ministry wants to study the mysteries of life and deat, they could have put up a railing or something to keep people from falling through.

[Colli]

Void diving.. i love this thread.

I just need to reread it all to review :)

[Elwen]

Wow.... indeed... I wonder how many of these questions we can tackle once we know book VI...

[Colli]

I was rereading this thread for ideas.. and I wondered about Snape's family. They didn't seem him on the tapestry in Black's house, did they? But he's a Slytherin, which makes you think he would be pure blood, exCEPT..

not even Tom Riddle was pure blood. Not even Slytherin's heir himself. So I'm sure some other mixed bloods have gotten through.

Do you think Snape's line has been... tarnished, and they got blasted off the tapestry?

[Elwen]

Colli, he might be a bit less closely related. Not all purebloods are on that tapestry - just the close relations of the Black family.

But of he is a pureblood (or part of his family was) then he is probably related to the rest of them anyway....

Certainly an interesting question... he must be related to some of the pupils in Hogwart's - Ron Weasley, for example!

Of course, we also don't know who was related to Voldemort's mother.... was she a pureblood? And if so, who was she related to?

[lizz]

Would be interesting if she was a muggleborn :D

concerning Snape there is no evidence at all, I just think he is a pureblood. And related to the Blacks, but I agree with Elwen, not all purebloods are on that tapestry.

[Miriela]

No, it's not possible for Voldemort's mother to be Muggle-born because it was through her side that he's related to Salazar Slytherin. We know this because Voldemort is Salazar Slytherin's heir but his father was a Muggle so he has to be related to Slytherin through his mother. :)

[Miriela]

But I envision Lucius Malfoy as quite a few years older than the Potters, hence his super-influence (i can't imagine a 35- or 40-year old having THAT much influence, can you?). Maybe he was at school with Molly and Arthur Weasley, which would further explain his malice toward that particular family.


It says in OotP that Lucius Malfoy is 41. I heard from a source *can't remember where* the Potters were 21 when Harry was born so when Harry's 15 they would be 36. So Lucius Malfoy would be in 6th year when the Potters were 1st years.