What Harry is and what will he become?

[Elfëa]

Discussion of all the books - the becoming and the past.

First of all, I hope that Harry won't be the normal hero - that he's choices are his and not laid before him. Now many of the ideas I speak about have come to me whilst reading fanfiction, which, after all, deals with possiblities. :)

Harry's childhood was chosen for him by Dumbledore. Dumbledore chose that it's best for Harry to live in a world where he is not famous from his birth. Yet Dumbledore must have known about Dursley's hatred for Potters. He chose that Harry would live in the cupboard. He chose that Harry won't have anyone to comfort him when he cried. He must have not cried that much. Harry's childhood was chosen one and he hated it. Yet it has grown him strong. He can take bullying. He doesn't trust people in vain.
Or is he a trust-worthy fool? He, after all, goes of with Hargid on the first possiblity? Harry was 11 at that time. A child who dreams of being something special. He dreams of positive attention, of being loved.
Dumbledore seems to be making decisions for Harry, will there be a time when Harry rebels against him?

Harry lived his childhood in world which he believed to be his. Yet when he was 11 he was introducted to a new world. A world where he was famous, yet a world where he'll live in constant thread. Do you think that Harry, if there will be more death and destruction, for example if Dumbledore dies, will take refugee in the world he used to know? Or shall he try to fight a losing battle?

What way do you think Harry's character will change in OotP?
He has now faced Voldemort in a duel, he has seen death - death so cruel cause it was not needed. "Kill the spare." Cedric's death could not be prevented, but there was no reason for killing him. He could have been stunned or even put under Imperio.
Harry's going to fifteen - a teenager. But do you think he can live normal teenager life? He is famous for starters, but also I think he'll be dark. Harry's character is not a happy one, but possible to turn to evil. He could easily want revenge.

Bravery is a charasteristic of Harry's, yet we have seen him fear. That makes him even more brave. But bravery does not help when you are facing rumours, not monsters. Can he take the blame that certainly will be put on him by the Slytherins - the rumours, now that he possibly has come out of the doze he spend rest of his school days after the duel with Voldemort.
How will he react if Malfoy comes up to him saying "Killer. Murderer." Do you think that'll be one hell of a fight? Or shall he be the "white knight" and just let it be?

Can Harry take the blaming? After all, he feels that he's quilty, because he persuaded Cedric to take the cup together with him. Will he become suicidal? Will he want to give up? Considering, civing up is something we haven't really seen Harry consider. Will he in the future?

Harry has also changed in his relationship to people. He has grown in enviroment that hasn't built him to trust people. He will certainly work on his own, don't you think? Can he trust on his friends on important things, when in need. He did trust Ron in PS when on the chess board. But will he be able to trust his friends and more important Will he tell them what happened with Voldemort?

Will Harry come to realise, as many fanfiction writers have that anyone he loves can be used against him. Will he take action to protect his friends.

Okay. This is enough for tonight. Two literary threads... :eek:

[Colli]

I don't really think Dumbledore knew just how much the Dursleys would hate Harry...

Dumbledore sent Hagrid to get Harry, but Hagrid didn't know at all that it would be such a problem. He was completely surprised that Harry didn't know he was a wizard, that he didn't know who his parents were, and he seemed rather appalled at the way Harry was treated. I think Dumbledore would have warned Hagrid a little better had he known in advance.

If Dumbledore died and all started to fall apart, I don't think it's Harry's nature to run away. I mean, even in the first book when all he had to do was leave the Sorceror's Stone alone and it would be safe (via the mirror), he ran to "save" it. But I don't think Harry ever really thought the muggle world was "his". It seems to me that he felt out of place.. he felt like something was odd. Like how he'd go places and people would recognize him, or he'd be able to do miraculous things without even trying.

There are so many things that could happen to Harry's character. First off, I think he is a normal kid. To adults, he's extraordinary, but most Hogwarts kids treat him normally. Draco/Snape: they just hate him. Happens in real life. He has the best friends and the mentor. He has a few fans that don't stick out too much. And then there are occasions when no one likes me, regardless of his fame. The beginning of the Triwizard Tourney, when he was a suspect in Chamber of Secrets. The kids don't treat him special because he's famous. Cho doesn't flirt with him because he's famous. With the exception of Harry's history and the book-by-book battles against evil, I consider him normal. And he showed he wanted revenge in Prisoner of Azkaban, but he also showed he wasn't capable of dishing it out.

:p The Slytherins should thank him. ;)

I'll reply to the rest later.. my head hurts from thinking too much. :D

[Elfëa]

Originally posted by Colli
I don't really think Dumbledore knew just how much the Dursleys would hate Harry...

I think he did :p (right now I'm mad because the computer ate my almost finished answer and I can't remember what I typed).


Dumbledore sent Hagrid to get Harry, but Hagrid didn't know at all that it would be such a problem. He was completely surprised that Harry didn't know he was a wizard, that he didn't know who his parents were, and he seemed rather appalled at the way Harry was treated. I think Dumbledore would have warned Hagrid a little better had he known in advance.

Dumbledore might have also considered that it's better that Hagrid does not know about how Dursleys treat Harry - he would have been more angry and caused perhaps some damage if he had known. Also this might have caused Hagrid wanting to fetch Harry by force. And that's not what Dumbledore wanted, he wanted Harry to come willingly.
And also there is Harry's point of view to consider. Because of Hagrid's reaction Harry perhaps does not realise that Dumbledore might have known about how Harry was treated.
Also Dumbledore might have wanted Harry learn to be humble... :rolleyes:


If Dumbledore died and all started to fall apart, I don't think it's Harry's nature to run away. I mean, even in the first book when all he had to do was leave the Sorceror's Stone alone and it would be safe (via the mirror), he ran to "save" it.

Even if it's not Harry's nature to run away - which he hasn't do so far. But sometimes even heroes falter. Except he actually did run away - with Cedric's body... nevermind.
I mean run away as a sence of not willing to harm the wizarding world anymore...


But I don't think Harry ever really thought the muggle world was "his". It seems to me that he felt out of place.. he felt like something was odd. Like how he'd go places and people would recognize him, or he'd be able to do miraculous things without even trying.

But he does not know any other world, so he must believe in his world. At least in his age.
I don't deny that he perhaps has had his own fantasy worlds where his parents are alive and secret agents undercover... who kid, after all, has not dreamed of being adopted (and turn out to be a princess :p)


There are so many things that could happen to Harry's character.
Yes. :p That's why I wanted to discuss about him :p

First off, I think he is a normal kid. To adults, he's extraordinary, but most Hogwarts kids treat him normally. Draco/Snape: they just hate him. Happens in real life. He has the best friends and the mentor. He has a few fans that don't stick out too much.

Hogwarts kids do not treat him normally, but Harry does not show his fame - it's mentioned at many points that even on his fourth year people stopped to stare him.

And then there are occasions when no one likes me, regardless of his fame. The beginning of the Triwizard Tourney, when he was a suspect in Chamber of Secrets. The kids don't treat him special because he's famous. Cho doesn't flirt with him because he's famous. With the exception of Harry's history and the book-by-book battles against evil, I consider him normal. And he showed he wanted revenge in Prisoner of Azkaban, but he also showed he wasn't capable of dishing it out.

But his fame strengtens the love and hate against him - if someone else had been suspected to be behind the attacks in CoS s/he would have been shunned out so totally. After all, not everyone perhaps would have known him/her.

Fame is a generator that cannot be missed when dealing with Harry's character. Even if Harry's not special from his own point of view, he is from the point of views of the persons who affect him.

I'll reply to the rest later.. my head hurts from thinking too much. :D

Guess what I must have felt last night... :eek:
Two threads and more would have come if I had stayed in the comp room... too much textual analyze lately...

[Colli]

Originally posted by Elfëa
I think he did :p (right now I'm mad because the computer ate my almost finished answer and I can't remember what I typed).


:D Good points, but I still disagree. :) And I *hate* it when you lose the post you just typed! Happens with that horrible 60 second rule.


Even if it's not Harry's nature to run away - which he hasn't do so far. But sometimes even heroes falter.
Oh.. like in The Iliad out the gates of Troy when Hector runs from Achilles and they chase each other around the walls of the city... :LOL: Wow! I remembered something from English today. :)

Anyway, the rest later. Now I must work on Economics.

[Elfëa]

Quick added thought -

Can Harry kill if it comes to choosing between his friend's life and Death Eater's (or whatever's) life?

[ValaSarah]

Ooh...good question.

ON one hand, he obviously has no problem killing monsters like the Basilisk, etc, to save friends (Ginny), but I think what you're asking about deals more with does Harry possess the humanity to kill a fellow human being.

In SS (PS) Harry actually does kill Professor Quirrell - not through his own desire to kill, but out of defense of himself. He knows that he can do harm to Quirrell by touching him - he first got his hand and saw what happened there before touching his face and killing him.

But I'm not certain if that directly relates to your question, because that was defense for himself, and not defense for someone else.

Of course, the question remains - would Harry think of defending his friends/loved ones in the same light as defending himself, even if his life was not in imminent danger? And would he defend to death, even though his security/safety is not in concern?

Just my humble thoughts, and more questions than thoughts.

~Vala

[Aduial Estel]

Originally posted by Elfea
Or is he a trust-worthy fool? He, after all, goes of with Hargid on the first possiblity? Harry was 11 at that time.
I don't think he's a trustworthy fool. The things Hagrid told him made sense...Harry had sensed the magic in him prior to the meeting, and also had seen [hundreds] of letters like the one that Hagrid gave him [though he didn't get to open them :p]. The Dursleys also confirmed Hagrid's story about Harry's parents, giving Harry the proof he needed to trust Hagrid.Originally posted by ValaSarah
Of course, the question remains - would Harry think of defending his friends/loved ones in the same light as defending himself, even if his life was not in imminent danger? And would he defend to death, even though his security/safety is not in concern?I think the situation with the basilisk proves that he would. After all, he and Ron decided to go after Ginny. He didn't have to; he could have let things fall as they may...but he didn't. He had the character to go in and save Ginny, almost to the point of his own death. Of course, like you pointed out, that was against a monster, not a human. But I think the answer would stiill be the same, that Harry would defend someone else as heartily as he would himself. ;) At least, I'd hope so.

As for the rest....everyone's expressed everything I can think of, and much more eloquently, to boot, so I'll just be on my way. :)

[Elfëa]

All these possibilities just make me like Harry's character even more.

He's not that o'so-common hero... well, not yet anyway... :) And hopefully he won't be :)

[Lanen]

I don't think Dumbledore wanted Harry to grow up humble. I think he was hoping for a more 'normal' attitude towards an abandoned child - after all, normally one's aunt would feel very loving and maternal towards the child of a dead sister. Petunia is just consumed with jealousy.

No- I think Rowling lets us see what happens when a child is spoiled from birth, as might well have happened had Harry been brought up in the 'magical' world. Look at Dudley - loved and spoiled and given all the attention in the world, as Harry never was. Obviously the way Harry was brought up was harsh and horrible - but he seems well able to cope with it. It has made him fast on his feet (to run away from Dudley) and a quick thinker under pressure. Of course, because he's Our Hero, this has only made him stronger...

Just a few random thoughts.