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glaelia
01-22-2003, 12:37 AM
ok, so we know JKR has a habit of foreshadowing, but there are some things i didn't realise until the other day.......




oh dear god, i was reading POA the other day, finishing it off for like the tenth time :rolleyes: and noted something i never did before.

OH MY GOD! i can't believe i actually didn't notice it!



Pettigrew was shaking his head, mouthing noiselessly, but staring all the while at Black as though hypnotised.

'.... ready to strike the moment he could be sure of allies..... to deliver the last Potter to them. If he gave them Harry, who'd dare say he betrayed Lord Voldemort? He'd be welcomed back with honours....


The LAST Potter.... Voldemort kille James... then went for Harry. Lily died protecting him... VOldemort did not explicitly kill her... her death was a result of him trying to kill Harry.... Lily was not a Potter by blood... Harry is... Voldemort was not trying to kill just anyone, he was trying to wipe out the blood Potters.... this HAS to be an important part of the biger picture!!!!!!!! will we find out the reason voldemort wants the potters dead in ootp??? is the order of the phoenix to protect the potter dynasty??


IS Harry Griffindor's heir??? is the potter dynasty descended from griffindor?


THis would fit with Voldemort being Slytherins heir wouldn't it... the two always opposed... and now, their final showdown between the two remaining heirs....

The phoenix in the mascot of griffindor house... perhaps the OOTP was set up by Godric Gryffindor to protect his descendents from SLytherins??


and oh my goodness! look at this!

http://www.genealogyweb.com/images/rewardsample.gif


the potter family crest!

Components of the Potter Family Name Coat of Arms
The Shield is: Gold with a black cauldren.
The Crest is: Five ostrich feathers.


note the red and gold... the colours of gryffindor! the black cauldron also.... interesting don't you think?

The "Potter" family name originated in Hampshire , located in England.

The griffon (or gryphon) is a symbol of bravery and guardianship.

: A mythical bird which lives 500 years and then dies, only to be reborn in a magical fire. Rowling's variant symbolizes love or loyalty. Phoenix feathers are used as wand cores, and phoenix tears have healing powers.





http://www.eaudrey.com/myth/images/phoenix.gif


The size of an eagle, with gold plumage around the neck, a purple body, and an azure tail. The throat has a crest, and the head has a tuft of feathers. (according to Pliny)


Features The main feature of the phoenix is that it is reborn through fire: when it gets old it will make a nest (sometimes of myrrh) and set it on fire. The phoenix will be consumed in the flames, but will be reborn out of the ashes. There is only one Phoenix at a time; it lives for many years (accounts vary from 500, 540, 1000 or 1460 years.) No person has ever seen this bird eat. This legend was very common among the Egyptians, the Greek, oriental cultures, and during medieval times.


Symbolizes Might represent the sun, which dies every night and is reborn the next morning. Among classical writers, it may represent those existing in paradise, enjoying eternal youth. Among Christians, it can represent rebirth after death.


Also called Fung or Feng-Huang

(Chinese version) In this version, the bird is sent to earth to perform extraordinary works and to help the development of man. It appears in different stages of the world's progress, and then returns to heaven.

Cinomolgus- An Arabian bird that built its nests out of cinnamon in high treetops. People would try to throw rocks or shoot arrows to dislodge the nest to get the cinnamon.



Described By: Ovid, Pliny
Herodotus- "They have also another sacred bird called the phoenix which I myself have never seen, except in pictures. Indeed it is a great rarity, even in Egypt, only coming there (according to the accounts of the people of Heliopolis) once in five hundred years, when the old phoenix dies. Its size and appearance, if it is like the pictures, are as follow:- The plumage is partly red, partly golden, while the general make and size are almost exactly that of the eagle. They tell a story of what this bird does, which does not seem to me to be credible: that he comes all the way from Arabia, and brings the parent bird, all plastered over with myrrh, to the temple of the Sun, and there buries the body. In order to bring him, they say, he first forms a ball of myrrh as big as he finds that he can carry; then he hollows out the ball, and puts his parent inside, after which he covers over the opening with fresh myrrh, and the ball is then of exactly the same weight as at first; so he brings it to Egypt, plastered over as I have said, and deposits it in the temple of the Sun. Such is the story they tell of the doings of this bird." (History of Herodotus)

Tacitus- "During the consulship of Paulus Fabius and Lucius Vitellius, the bird called the phoenix, after a long succession of ages, appeared in Egypt and furnished the most learned men of that country and of Greece with abundant matter for the discussion of the marvelous phenomenon. It is my wish to make known all on which they agree with several things, questionable enough indeed, but not too absurd to be noticed. That it is a creature sacred to the sun, differing from all other birds in its beak and in the tints of its plumage, is held unanimously by those who have described its nature. As to the number of years it lives, there are various accounts. The general tradition says five hundred years. Some maintain that it is seen at intervals of fourteen hundred and sixty-one years, and that the former birds flew into the city called Heliopolis successively in the reigns of Sesostris, Amasis, and Ptolemy, the third king of the Macedonian dynasty, with a multitude of companion birds marvelling at the novelty of the appearance. But all antiquity is of course obscure. From Ptolemy to Tiberius was a period of less than five hundred years."

Mandeville- "In Egypt is the city of Heliopolis, that is to say, the city of the Sun. In that city there is a temple, made round after the shape of the Temple of Jerusalem. The priests of that temple have all their writings, under the date of the fowl that is clept phoenix; and there is none but one in all the world. And he cometh to burn himself upon the altar of that temple at the end of five hundred year; for so long he liveth. And at the five hundred years' end, the priests array their altar honestly, and put thereupon spices and sulphur and other things that will burn lightly; and then the bird phoenix cometh and burneth himself to ashes. And the first day next after, men find in the ashes a worm; and the second day next after, men find a bird quick and perfect; and the third day next after, he flieth his way. And so there is no more birds of that kind in all the world, but it alone, and truly that is a great miracle of God. And men may well liken that bird unto God, because that there is no God but one; and also, that our Lord arose from death to life the third day. This bird men see often- time fly in those countries; and he is not mickle more than an eagle. And he hath a crest of feathers upon his head more great than the peacock hath; and is neck his yellow after color of an oriel that is a stone well shining, and his beak is colored blue as ind; and his wings be of purple color, and his tail is barred overthwart with green and yellow and red. And he is a full fair bird to look upon, against the sun, for he shineth full gloriously and nobly."



okay, i'm done... it's nearly 5am and i need sleep! other people add stuff!


glae

xxx

Pilgrim Grey
01-22-2003, 01:21 AM
The phoenix in the mascot of griffindor house... perhaps the OOTP was set up by Godric Gryffindor to protect his descendents from SLytherins??
Uh, the lion is the mascot of Gryffindor...
And this spec has been passed around alot, and we're still no closer to figuring out the truth :( But we will be in June!!!

glaelia
01-22-2003, 09:34 AM
:p


i know the lion is the 'emblem' ... but the phoenix is like, their 'mascot' .... it signifys truth, honesty and bravery....


don't mind my musings though..... ;)

Elfëa
01-22-2003, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by glaelia
The LAST Potter.... Voldemort kille James... then went for Harry. Lily died protecting him... VOldemort did not explicitly kill her... her death was a result of him trying to kill Harry.... Lily was not a Potter by blood... Harry is... Voldemort was not trying to kill just anyone, he was trying to wipe out the blood Potters.... this HAS to be an important part of the biger picture!!!!!!!! will we find out the reason voldemort wants the potters dead in ootp??? is the order of the phoenix to protect the potter dynasty??


IS Harry Griffindor's heir??? is the potter dynasty descended from griffindor?


THis would fit with Voldemort being Slytherins heir wouldn't it... the two always opposed... and now, their final showdown between the two remaining heirs....

I do not think that Harry will be the Heir of Gryffindor, at least in any significant manner - JKR has proved her ground as making continuosly the point that it doesn't matter where you came from but what you are and what you choose.
This can be seen especially in CoS where Harry is thought to be the Heir of Slytherin.
And the final would need the Heirs of the other houses as well - the Heir of Hufflepuff and the Heir of Ravenclaw - and unfortunately, we cannot really see them coming... There are none Ravenclaws who are really described in the books - we don't even know who's the head of the Ravenclaw house!

For the blood of the Potters, that might be a different thing. There may be predictions and such to tell that, for example "A Potter will wipe out the Dark Lord." - but we do not know about those yet.

And for the rest: My stupid thread with a stupid name (http://www.council-of-elrond.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1889)

Seriphus
01-22-2003, 02:25 PM
Professor Flitwick is the head of Ravenclaw. :)

I think a prediction about the Potters is more likely than the Heir of Gryffindor theory, not so much because of the 'blood doesn't matter' theme, but because it's such an obvious idea. And we've got Trelawney's first true prediction as well.

Elfëa
01-22-2003, 02:33 PM
Thanks - where did you know it??? It isn't said in the books...

glaelia
01-22-2003, 02:35 PM
i should have been more explicit... but it was 5am.... i was theorising the "potter blood" part rather than the heir of gryffindor part ( and yes i'm aware that particular idea has been talked about before )..... it was just that quote from sirius... the last of the potters.... he has to be someone more important than the 'boy-who-lived' doesn't he... well, yes we know that... but i mean.... voldemort was after lily and james.. .they knew.. they expected it.... i just hope we find out why in Ootp!!!! i'll go mad if we have to wait till the 7th book!

ValaSarah
01-24-2003, 10:36 AM
I hope that we find out before book 7. Especially qith that quote from Dumbledore in OOtP - "It's time I tell you everything" (Or something like that). I'm just hoping that's NOT the last line of the book. I'll be bummed.:eek:

There apparently is something special about Potter Blood - whether it's because it is the Heir of Gryffindor (sp? - early in the morning for me) or because of a prophecy (Divination, etc) remains to be seen, and from what I've read of JKR's work, I think it could go either way. From a Heir perspective, Harry very well could be, but he's a bigger, better person than the Slytherins because he recognizes that blood doesn't make you better - it's your own personality that does, or at least, that's how I see it possibly being stated. Harry is stronger because of the Alliances he has made with people like Hermione and because he appreciates Muggle-ness (he's been raised w/ a muggle lifestyle, even if it wasn't the best).


I'm rambling. Need more sleep. I'd say I can't wait for the baby to come, but then, those were famous last words w/ my first!:p

~Vala (preggo woman, not many brain cells left)

Kristin
01-24-2003, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by ValaSarah
Especially qith that quote from Dumbledore in OOtP - "It's time I tell you everything" (Or something like that). I'm just hoping that's NOT the last line of the book. I'll be bummed.:eek:


Ooh! I hadn't even thought of that! :eek: But it could be how the book ends...

That would be rotten. Of course we know that we won't really find out everything. But I at least want to know some of everything. :)

glaelia
01-24-2003, 02:15 PM
hoping it's not the last line too!! but if jkr keeps to her previous form... we should see harry arrive at kings cross at the end of the book... and therefore that can't be the last lines!! jope not anyway........


roll on june 21st!


glae

xxx

Pilgrim Grey
01-24-2003, 11:09 PM
Unless Dumbledore is at King's Cross waiting for him :D Sorry, I shouldn't tease like that...

And some things from previous books: In GOF, Fudge says that he's heard of a curse-scar acting as a warning before... what does this mean? In the context (Harry's scar hurt, but Fudge still doesn't believe that Voldy's back) it would seem that someone had a curse-scar that hurt them, but turned out to be a false-alarm (or maybe someone cried wolf...) hmmm...

And this could be my weird, pattern-seeking mind, but it seems to my that every book deals with something from two books before: POA dealt with Sirius Black, who was mentioned two books earlier in PS, house-elves were involved in GOF, and Dobby was a character fom COS, and we know OOTP has Lupin in it (from POA)... am I crazy or what?

Seriphus
01-25-2003, 08:27 AM
No you're not crazy, there's a lot of foreshadowing. In a recent interview JKR said she enjoyed watching the CoS movie because there were important bits in it that only she realises the significance of at the moment. The books do seem to follow the 2-books-before pattern (Sirius Black was first mentioned in PS/SS).

I want to know if Dumbledore's scar that is a map of London Underground is important. :)

Moxie
01-26-2003, 11:29 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if it is, Seriph... or if Harry and the others do, at one point, need to find a bezoar. :)

Colli
01-26-2003, 07:52 PM
:) We talked about Dumbledore's OotP line in the Release Date thread... I seriously doubt it's the last sentence.

Why?

Interviews with Rowling + my own suspicions about what Dumbledore would tell Harry.

Specifically:


* It's very important in the plot that Harry has his mother's eyes, and that her wand was very good for charms.
* The Dursleys are in the next book, and there's stuff coming with them that people might not expect.
* The "Arabella Figg" Dumbledore refers to at the end of book four is indeed the same Mrs. Figg that takes care of Harry for the Dursleys in book one.
* You'll be seeing Mrs. (Arabella) Figg in book five, and you'll find out all about her.
* Harry's parents' profession will be a big part of the plot.
* We will find out why Voldemort killed Lily and James Potter.
* Something HUGE will be revealed about Lily Potter.


I think that's a large enough chunk of "everything". :)

glaelia
01-27-2003, 07:54 PM
okay peeps... i found another good quote for you... you know jkr has said in interviews that harry will find a room that he has been in before to be very important??? i found this nice quote in gof...

ya know how i love foreshadowing... ;)

He had visited this office under two of its revious occupants. In Professor Lockharts day,, the walls had been plastered with beaming, winking pictures of Professor Lockhart himself. When Lupin had lived here, yo uwere more likely to come across a specimen of some fascinating new Dark creature he had procurred for them to study in class. Now, however, the office was full of a number of exceptionally odd objects that........

you get the idea... i cannae be arsed to write it all out.... interesting room... very different with all its occupants... harry's pretty much guaranteed to go in there with the new DADA teacher isnt' he... and what will he find? will it be the important room JKR speculated about???


;)

Elfëa
01-27-2003, 07:57 PM
Or it could be the room Mirror Erised was? Or the Chamber? Or McGonagall's office... or Snapes :p

Or just the teacher's room... :p Or any of the class rooms...

Or...

it could be the Astronomy tower.... ;) - he's a teenage boy after all...

glaelia
01-27-2003, 08:06 PM
:p elfea!!

Elfëa
01-27-2003, 08:17 PM
What? :p

I haven't done nothing wrong :p

It wasn't me who first thougth about Astronomy tower as a snogging place anyway :p

glaelia
01-27-2003, 08:27 PM
we should just have a thread where i can post something and you can disagree with me.... :rolleyes:



:hug:



:D

Elfëa
01-27-2003, 08:35 PM
Trout War (http://www.council-of-elrond.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2708)

There :p