this has always bothered me....

[angleet]

This has always bothered me...

or, plot holes in Harry Potter.

This is not the same as 'mistakes', as those are things that are not intended (like James coming out of V's wand first, etc.). Plot holes are intentional.

My biggest problem is in GoF. Why did they guide Harry through the entire tourney if the point was to get him to touch a portkey? Why couldn't crouch have just turned Harry's pillow into a portkey, or anything else for that matter.

So...what bugs you?

[Colli]

Well, the Marauder's Map, for one. But that's been mentioned in both the questions thread and the bloopers thread.

The only things I can think of are things we've brought up... like Lupin turning into a werewolf at the end of PoA, etc.

Hm..

Let me get back to you on that one :)

[Bleu Unicorn]

One of the things I never understood was in Book 1 actually. With the Mirror of Erised. Now if the Mirror was necessary to find the Stone, why didn't Dumbledoor just never put it down in the whereever that area of the castle is (dungeon? below it?). I mean it hung out where it was for apparently a long time if Dumbledoor felt that it was impeeding some people in their daily lives (ie: Harry). [shrugs] Just always bugged me.

[amrael]

I think this was mentioned in the old imladris threads but...


why all the traps and puzzles that protected the Stone were actually solvable?????

I mean, if you want to protect something, you do it thoroughly. You don't invent silly logical potion puzzles but place a booby trap that spills a dissolving potion on the head of the first person to enter. And over the head of the second, third and fourth ones as well. You don't lock a door and leave the key cleverly buzzing around in the ceiling with a broomstick handy. You keep it in a safe place. Neither you mess around with giant chess pieces that actually obey chess rules, but ones that smash the head of anybody careless enough to set a foot in the room.

Don't you think the whole setup rather absurd?

[Colli]

I never saw any point in using those things to protect the stone in the first place.

If anyone who looked in the mirror desiring the Stone to use it would never get it, then you have the mirror. Voldemort/Quirrell would have stood there forever trying to get the Stone and he would have never suceeded. Harry's the idiot that got the Stone FROM the mirror and put it in danger of being taken by Voldie. :rolleyes:


^
Plot hole of the most imaginable magnitude.

And what was Fluffy guarding if the mirror was just sitting in one of the rooms in Hogwarts?

[amrael]

Harry's the idiot...


:notworthy :notworthy


O great wisdom...

:D

[Elfëa]

Hmm... won't say anything about PS cause it can be just Dumbledore's way to make Harry "stronger"...

Perhaps the stone wasn't in the mirror before the mirror was replaced?

Agree with the great wisdom :notworthy:

[qleap]

Originally posted by angleet
My biggest problem is in GoF. Why did they guide Harry through the entire tourney if the point was to get him to touch a portkey? Why couldn't crouch have just turned Harry's pillow into a portkey, or anything else for that matter

That's something I thoguht too!! I really enjoyed the book but when I got at the end I thought "ok let's try pretend it's the same if it doesn't make any sense at all" :D I thought I just didn't pay enough attention and missed the point.

About the mirror, I never really understood WHERE the stone is, I didn't think it was the mirror, but all the same it didn't make sense to me.

[Bleu Unicorn]

Originally posted by Colli
Harry's the idiot that got the Stone FROM the mirror and put it in danger of being taken by Voldie. :rolleyes:
I don't think that's a plothole. I mean, yeah kind of. But it's not like Harry just found the stone and then tried to hide it from Voldemort -- he wanted to find the stone to keep it from Voldemort. So it's more a plothole in that's just really a stupid and weak way to tie up stuff, more than Harry's an idiot.

Another thing that bothers me that I just remembered is the whole thing in PoA with the dementors at the end, where they almost kiss Harry...wasn't it supposed to be some type of stipulation before they did that. Not just, hey you're standing here, I'll go suck your soul out of you. I'm a bit foggy on the exactness (which means I'm lazy and don't feel like getting the book from across the room)...but still seems, eh to me....

[Ravenclaw]

Firstly, I think all the solvable puzzles weren't nessisarily (bah I can never spell that word) there to stop the fiend completely. I think it was more of a way to confuse them and slow them down a bit. I mean, it would give people more time to realize that Fluffy's asleep and then to go and look for the criminal ya know... Kinda like Harry and co.

But that bothers me too. Wouldn't Fluffy make a lot of noise? I mean, ya think someone would hear that dog. And if it fell asleep, it would be exceptionally quiet and SOMEONE would have to go check it out.

Then again, it's Hogwarts and the walls are probably incredibly sound proof.

Secondly, about the portkey cup thing in GoF.

Voldie wants to look all smart and clever and big and manly in front of all his little minions and so he had to devise a complicated plan to get Harry to some remote area and then he had to play with him a bit, just to insult him. And THEN he doesn't even get to kill him when he has the chance! If you ask me, I think Voldie went through more trauma and difficulties in that year than Harry did. I mean, thinking up clever, possible plans is hard work and it took a lot of sneakiness on his part and Crouch jr's. And it didn't even amount to anything! I mean, he didn't even get to look smart and manly infront of all his little friends.

He'll be teased for the rest of his evil life.

And about the Dementors in the end, I think it's like "Hey, free lunch!" I mean, no one told them they COULDN'T eat some free food that wanders so willingly into their grasp (must stop thinking about CoS). Seriously, it's not like dementors have any reasoning or real intellectual strength (otherwise I'd ask one of them to help me with my physics homework.) And they aren't easily controlled, which is one of the reasons Dumbledore doesn't like them. So if they're hungry and there's a lot of them and two lost young souls have 'EAT MY SOUL' written across their chests, they'd do it.

As for the stone/mirror/harry/voldie scenario, Harry was silly enough to say "Let me get the stone before voldie so he can torture me and get it from me so we can entertain my readers when I write my book." But Voldie manipulated him. And manipulation takes a lot of work. Again, I say he got the worst of it.

Ah, my poor Tom! He never gets anything he wants. :(. Stupid Potters.

[Seriphus]

With the Triwizard Cup it may have been that by using the cup as a portkey it widens the possibility of who could have set it up and takes the focus away from Moody/Crouch Jnr so that if part of the plan had gone wrong he was less likely to be found out. If he'd used one of harry's possessions the suspicion would fall immediately on the Hogwarts staff, Karkaroff and Madame Maxime and maybe the older pupils, depending on how complicated the spell is. With the cup being the portkey I imagine many people at the Ministry could be suspected, again depending on who came into contact with the cup. Anyway, as it is an externally organised event, on the chance of the plan failing to deliver Harry to Voldemort, the focus of the blame is less likely to be on Crouch Jnr, leaving him to try to help Voldemort in some other way.

What I don't get is that the portkey they used to get to the Quidditch World Cup transported them at an exact time. All Harry needed to do to travel to the graveyard was to touch the portkey. Inconsistency or different types of portkey?

[Ravenclaw]

We all spend way too much time thinking about all this...

[Anarane]

HI! im new, anyway,

One thing that has always bothered me is Peeves. In the first book and i am not quoting this word for word cause i dont have my book in front of me (i think it is on pg 115 in my book), but the ghosts are talking in the entrance hall and they were saying that they had given Peeves one last chance but i believe it was nearly headless nick who said to the fat friar that Peeves " isnt really one of us, he isnt really a ghost you know..." then he gets cut off and we never hear anything else about it. Hmmmm what does this mean? i might be reading to much into it, but it is something JKR could bring up later.

[Aduial Estel]

First of all, welcome Anarane! Always nice to see new faces. :) Enjoy yourself here.

Anyway, concerning Peeves: He's a poltergeist, which is a spirit, but not in the sense Nearly Headless Nick, the Grey Lady, et al. are spirits. I wonder if Peeves was ever even alive. Poltergeists are really bothersome apparitions, I'm not certain as to why or how they got that way. I don't know if they are the spirits of dead people who can't rest, but I somehow doubt that. I think they're just sort of like ghouls...and ghouls are classified as beasts [though Poltergeists aren't, as they have the power to reason, albeit stupid, annoying reason ;)]. But mind you, all this is merely my speculation, I could be way off the mark.

As for what bothers me...hmm, let me get back to you on that one. :)

[amrael]

Another bothersomeness.

How did Barty Crouch manage to impersonate Moody for a whole year?

I know he took polyjuice, and that takes care of the physical side of things, but impersonating somebody 24 hours a day requires much more than that. Crouch had been a long time in Azkaban, so he would be out of touch with most things. I'm sure Moody had a long list of manias, habits and so on that would have to be copied, and Dumbledore was at least an old acquaintance and maybe even a friend, so he would know a lot of those personal things that are so hard to copy.

So why didn't he suspect anything?

[Elfëa]

No idea, but

Crouch had been a long time in Azkaban, so he would be out of touch with most things.
Actually, he had been locked up in his home :p

I just had to nitpick that- oh, and wasn't it said that Moody was under Imperio and Crouch made him tell things? :)

[amrael]

Ok. He was some time in Azkaban and some time locked in his house. I haven't been able to find for how long, so I'll concede the point.


and wasn't it said that Moody was under Imperio and Crouch made him tell things?



Yes, but the things that I'm talking about are the small everyday bits that usually you don't think about. Let's see: if you tried to impersonate me, you'd have to know that I hate coffee with lots of milk, that if I do put a bit of milk on it then I take it with sugar, but if I drink it black, then no sugar. If you get it wrong, my friends would surprised. If then you get wrong all my other little habits, then you (who are a witch and so know about the existence of polyjuice) would get extremely suspicious. You can easily learn by heart a person's file, but getting that kind of thing right means a very close acquaintance. Remember Moody was impersonated for a whole school year. I don't think there is a real chance of pulling it off.

[Elfëa]

No, there really isn't.
But he's a weirdo, so perhaps he can behave little weirdly? ;)

[Smeagol]

maybe some sort of spell that allows you to transfer information from another person's brain into your own?

I dunno, I'm reading through GOF for the third time right now, so I'll keep a closer eye on that isssue.

[StarGazr]

This just started bothering me... because I didn't think about it until it popped up in an online thing I read a few days ago. At first I thought it was a typo, then I went to another website and saw that the same thing was there too. Here's my question: (and flame me or yell at me if this has been discussed like a million times, but keep in mind I AM a junior member...) When does the Harry Potter series take place?! Oh my gosh... here I am thinking that this is supposed to be taking place in the 21st century, but now I'm reading that it really "TOOK" place in the 90's?! Someone.. if you don't wanna discuss this on the boards, please PM me or E-mail me... but I really want to know why I'm reading that in "reality" Harry Potter is really actually older then me... and why... well just does the series take place in the 21st Century or is this something that was supposed to have happened in the last ten years??

[Colli]

Flaming's against the rules, whether you deserve it or not. ;)

And it's a perfectly legit question.

Oct 31, 1492 Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington is unsuccessfully decapitated after being hit 45 times on the neck with a blunt ax.

Oct 31, 1992 (In Chamber of Secrets) Harry, Hermione, and Ron attend Nearly Headless Nick's 500th DeathDay party.

So The Sorceror's Stone took place in 1991, making Harry's 11th birthday on July 31, 1991, the same day the Gringott's Bank was broken in to.

Hope that helps! Keep in mind Ms Rowling has been working on this story for over 10 years, so naturally she would have used the dates from back then.

[StarGazr]

Yup... makes perfect sense... except for the fact that in one of the books Dudley is said to have a PlayStation... *sighs and goes to bed... it's too late to be hurting my head like this*

[lithorose]

I've heard that's only in the American version. It's obviously a mistake;)

Harry and co. would have been about the same age as me if they really existed (Lith shudders to remember her teen years:eek: ) I like to think that they don't have actual dates though. More timeless that way...

[StarGazr]

Aww yeah! No dates... that'd make my life easier! Not to have to think about years. It should just be "December 25th of the Fifth Year" or something... :D

[Elfëa]

Erm... lets just say that Rowling's maths don't come together here... she has said that Harry was born 1980 :p (which would make him 3 years older than me :p)

[Seriphus]

I think the maths does work, but we have to read HP as a history rather than something happening at the present. Harry would have left school just under 5 years ago.

[Elfëa]

hmmm... wonders if she can link to a article on Lexicon

nevermind, I can't bother to look it up :o

[StarGazr]

See what I mean Elfea??? He would be three years older than you and me that that disturbs me! I can't look at cute lil Daniel Radcliffe and try to imagine that Harry Potter in some limbo dimension is actually older then me... hmmmm sheesh... can you tell it's Friday and that my brain has pretty much leaked out... I think I need to be :trout:ed

[Elfëa]

StarGzr - that's why there's fanfiction (where Harry's old enough :p)

BTW and OT, still interested betaing? (Was it you or was it someone else?) - I've got ff, but it's not fitting to post here... I think it's R... :))

[Aduial Estel]

Elfea, are you going to post it on Fiction Alley? I'd be happy to beta for you, I've beta-ed for a couple other fanfics, but they're now defunct. If you need a beta, just holler! :)

[Elfëa]

Hmm, fictionalley :) (btw, I don't think you're allowed to link anything +PG here... :))

if you want to beta (wow, I'm finally getting people :D)... hmm... I think you'll have to wait couple hours, then I might be finished with three first chapters. :) Have to read the through myself first :) (Can you PM me a e-mail adress, or shall I just e-mail you through boards?)

[Aduial Estel]

Aha, fixed! Okay then, I have PMed you with my email address, take as much time as you need!

[glaelia]

ALL RIGHT! i wanna know all your names at fiction alley/schnoogle so i can go and read your stuff!!

[Elfëa]

Well, I'm probably the same as I'm everywhere, except on yahoo :p

Or I could be Ellie Caro... that's my LJ name - even if the nick is same... and my older internet nick :p

Dunno yet. :p

[Pengi]

Woohoo, my first post. :D Hi everyone.

Sorry if this has been posted before somewhere. ^_^; Something that's bothered me is that Hogwarts students aren't allowed to use magic outside of school, but Ron's house is practically all run by magic. Apart from being held up by magic, it's full of things like the clock that shows where the family members are, and the talking mirror. Couldn't using floo powder count too? And apparently there had been explosions heard from Fred and George's room in the summer holidays. Perhaps the ministry couldn't tell who was actually using the magic? :confused: Harry was blamed for Dobby's spell in CoS after all.

[Elfëa]

They are not allowed, but I quess it's rather difficult to control, considering that there are magical families where there's magic all around. (And lets not forget wild magic) - I guess that they aren't really allowed to use magic near Muggles - where it's of course easier to control...


:wave: Welcome :hug:

[Bleu Unicorn]

Actually that reminds me of something else that bothers me. JKR once said in an interview that de-gnoming the Burrow's garden was important, since it would be a clue that wizards reside in the house - but wouldn't the house itself sort of reveal that?

And I guess the ministry isn't so good at finding who uses magic sometimes 'cause with Dobby and all. I don't like how in the movies this is left out - like Hermionie using magicks to fix Harry's glasses, not once but twice. But then Ron and Harry get in trouble with the flying car. [shrugs] Nitpicky, but it bugs me.

[Elfëa]

Wonder if students are allowed to use magic on Hogwarts Express - perhaps they are, considering Harry et co. hexing Malfoy et co. in GoF... :)

[Bleu Unicorn]

Hmm, I forgot about that one, Elfea! True, true.

[Polikwaptiwa]

Hi! I'm new. This thread caught my eye and got the honor of my frist post! Hurray!

I have always noticed the plot holes...but then again the more you think about it the more you realize that there wouldn't be a book if there weren't some of them. Like in GoF making a thing of Harry's into a portkey. I suppose it could have gone another way...but...it's JKR's genius not mine!

[Bleu Unicorn]

:wave: Welcome to the CoE, Polikwaptiwa! :hug:

And Elfea, I wanna read some of these ficcys! :D

[Elfëa]

Bleu - I can pm you the url when the first chapter is up... but now it seems it'll take some time still...

:wave: Welcome Polikwaptiwa! - what language's that?

[Pilgrim Grey]

Originally posted by Seriphus
What I don't get is that the portkey they used to get to the Quidditch World Cup transported them at an exact time. All Harry needed to do to travel to the graveyard was to touch the portkey. Inconsistency or different types of portkey?
I think that the Portkey's were staggered, so that there weren't too many people arriving at once. So I think normally a portkey would simply teleport a person...

[Bleu Unicorn]

Originally posted by Elfëa
Bleu - I can pm you the url when the first chapter is up... but now it seems it'll take some time still...
Coolies! And take all the time you want - I'm rather patient 'cos I know how it is to write stuff like that (though for me the trouble is more trying to find the time.

Anyhoo, back on topic, I think Pilgrim Grey's got it - since there were so many people going to the World Cup, they had to organize it so that people would come in at staggered times. (Though it still appeared rather disorganizied to an extent). I wouldn't be surprised if there were more than one type of portkey in the Wizard World - I wouldn't put it past JKR at all. ;)

[Elfëa]

Different types (possible) of portkey:

Time - the portkey Weasleys & co used to get to QWC :)
Time/set place later - (I think this is one possible) portkey that brought Weasley's back from QWC - "catch a early portkey back home" is Mr. Weasley's line from book. :)
Place - works anytime, from anywhere - could be the Cup
Person - perhaps the Cup needed HARRY to touch it, before it would work?


okay... I'll go back writing. Possibilities are endless and we haven't been told the exact nature of portkeys yet...

[Ravenclaw]

Wow, I have not been here in a while... How did we get onto fan fiction???

ABout Hermi fixing Harry's glasses...

In CoS, Hermione fixes them in Diagon Alley. Now I may be rusty, but I'm pretty sure that's a place they aren't allowed to do it.

Perhaps Hermione is an exception... you know, being smart and all... then again, i think it's just a blooper and I think the WB wanted to show how cool their special effects were (hey, what can I say, no hollywood person can wait.)

OK, nextly, whatever happened to the fan fiction thread I started? It's funny cause I go to threads all over and hear people saying they wanna see stuff... Why not just check out the thread right here in your very own Leaky Cauldron! Since I am lazy and hungry and it's 8:45, you will not find a link to it in this post, but I'm sure Elfea could be so kind as to point you in the right direction.

Thank you and goodnight.

:sleep:

[Elfëa]

Rav - that CoS thing was a MOVIE MISTAKE :D :p :mad: :devil:

In books it's Mr. Weasley :) Herm fixes the classes in PS - in the train :)

How did we get onto fan fiction???

It was probably me...:o

[Aduial Estel]

Hello, newbies! :hug:

About Ron's house being run by magic...his parents probably cast the spells and whatnot to run the house, so it would be allowed. My theory is, the Ministry can sense magic when it's being used but can't precisely pinpoint who's doing it [point: Harry being blamed, like Pengi said]. I also think they're more lenient with magic families, because they trust the parents to keep the children in line, and from the sight of Muggles. The reason Harry was blamed for Dobby's spell, in my opinion, is because it was powerful enough for them to take note. George [or Fred, one of them ;)] said house-elves have a very powerful brand of magic, and his spell probably popped up on the Ministry radar [or whatever they use to monitor magic]. They probably keep tabs on accidental magic [by Muggle-borns who don't know they're wizards/witches, or people like Harry who make odd things happen without knowing the reason] but disregard it as simply that - an accident not worth the time to reprimand. But Dobby's spell was powerful enough for them to realise it wasn't an accident, and since Harry is the only wizard in the Dursley household, he was blamed for the spell. O...kay, time for Maia to stop rambling on and on.

:hug:s new people again. ;)

[angleet]

For some reason this just came to me (ok, so I gues it hasn't ALWAYS bothered me, then, but still)- If everyone who was a Death Eater had the Dark Mark - why did any of them avoid getting sent to prison? Isn't it pretty straight forward? You had the mark, you supported Voldie, off you go. Snape certainly could have told them about the mark, even if he didn't know everyone who was a Voldie supporter (it was mentioned that no one knew who everyone was, other than he-who-must-not-be-named).

[Elfëa]

It apparently showed only when Dark Lord called them - "it burned stronger an hour ago" (or something like that) Snape said to Fudge when he showed the mark - also when Karkaroff came to Snape he said "it's growing darker" - so I assume when Voldemort wasn't in power it didnt' show.

And also, Fudge didn't know what it was - so apparently it's not commonly known sign of Death Eaters.
Also, Mr. Weasley didn't mention it when they saw the Dark Mark on the sky - it really seems people did know Dark Mark as Voldie's mark, but not as mark burned on the flesh of the Death Eaters. :)

[Colli]

:) I was thinking the same thing as Elfea.