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Colli
03-28-2003, 10:49 PM
Ok, so I was browsing at MuggleNet (www.mugglenet.com) looking at some of their theories, and there was one there I had never seen before... I'm not as sold on it as I am the Snape/vampire theory, but I thought it was interesting.... and you all might like to read it. :D

From Wizarding World Press's "Ultimate Unofficial Guide to Harry Potter" comes this shocking theory about how James Potter could be alive in Lupin's body.

Here are the clues JKR leaves for us:


JKR mentions in several interviews that Lupin is her favorite character, and that Lupin made book 3 so important to write.

Unlike everyone else, Lupin never stared at Harry's scar, or mentioned his eyes or resemblance to his father. Lupin addresses Harry by name as if he was already very familiar with him. (Chapter 5)

"'I certainly don't want Harry dead...' An odd shiver passed over his face." (Chapter 17)

That's not just a teacher or friend saying that. JKR must have added that second bit for a reason.

Lupin enters the room in "a shower of red sparks." (Chapter 17)

Throughout the series Harry is indundated with clues that he might be a heir of Gryffindor, and if he is, that probably means James was before him, which would explain the red sparks. Also, a shower of red and gold sparks came out of Harry's wand when he first tried it.

Lupin, who was "both shaken and pleased," comes over to congratulate Harry on his spectacular Patronus. (Chapter 13)

Lupin must have been "shaken" from seeing that Harry's Patronus is James's own Patronus.

Lupin has "no hesitation" about what Harry's father would think. (Chapter 18)

How can he be so sure about what Harry's father would think?

When Harry tells Lupin he is hearing his mum's voice louder, Lupin looks "paler than usual." Harry then tells Lupin how he hears his his dad's voice for the first time trying to old off Voldemort so his mom could escape. "'You heard James?' said Lupin in a strange voice." (Chapter 12)

Why would Lupin react oddly to Harry hearing James? Because of the strange circumstances he realized it wasn't James saying it, it was Lupin.

Trelawney said that Lupin "positively fled" when she offered to crystal gaze for him. (Chapter 11)

We thought that Lupin fled because he didn't want anyone to find out that he was a werewolf, but later in the story Dumbledore tells Harry that all of the staff had already been told that. He's afraid of something else being exposed -- why else would he run?

Upon hearing that Harry hears his mom being murdered by Voldemort whenever a dementor is near him, Lupin made "a sudden motion with his arm, as though to grip Harry's shoulder, but then thought better of it." (Chapter 10)

For his own safety, he can't afford to let his emotions get the better of him, so he is trying to restrain himself. His emotions will make him weak, and he might let the truth slip. He wants to touch his son so badly but he (wisely) restrains himself.

Lupin says: "Now that we could all transform."

This is arguable, but it would have made more sense for him to say "Now that they could all transform." So why didn't he?

Several times, Harry wonders whether Lupin may be able to read his mind.

If he's his father, of course they are going to have a special bond.

JK Rowling said in a chat that we would never see a live Lily or James Potter. However, if James is in Lupin's body, then we wouldn't be seeing James Potter. We would just know that it's him.

Not sure if this is significant, but Lupin's first name is Remus -- the legendary wolf-child who co-founded Rome with his brother Romulus. Romulus later killed Remus.

This is what might have happened to James and Remus:

As an extra, extra precaution, James and Remus switched bodies using a Switching Spell. (There are numerous references to Switching Spells throughout the series.) This was done without the knowledge of anybody else with the exception of Lily, who may have performed the spell. After the switch, Lupin (in James's body) stayed at Godric's Hollow while James (in Lupin's body) left.

Voldemort attacked, and Lupin (in James's body) was killed. Having no body to switch back to, James was now stuck inside Lupin's werewolf body.

With everything thinking he's Lupin, James is (at least temporarily) safe from Voldemort, who is sure that he's dead. Now that he knows Sirius is innocent, Sirius may be the only one he will trust with the information.

The reason James and Lupin had to take that one extra precaution is still unknown, and is at the heart of mysteries of this series. We know that Voldemort wanted to kill James and Harry, but not necessarily Lily. There is some important reason for keeping James and Harry alive.

So, it's just a theory, but worth reading. :D What do you all think?

xKatiexBellx
03-28-2003, 11:08 PM
That's brilliant!:D :D :notworthy really neat! I would have had no idea, also, I heard a line from the Harry Potter book once, it was told on the radio... Dumbledore says,"Harry, I need to tell you something I should have told you in your first year..." I wonder what that means, it could be about James... I'll just have to wait!

lithorose
03-28-2003, 11:23 PM
Nope. Not convinced:D The Snape/vampire theory, while I don't think I believe it, makes enough sense it could be true, but the 'facts' in this case seem too much of a stretch. Lupin being JKRs favorite character in no way means he could actually be James. Lupin is just a decent guy and a lot of the reactions he has are anything a decent guy would have, they don't necessarily have a 'deeper' significance. So says I.:cool:

However, it isn't as crazy as some of the things they're cooking up on that site.:rolleyes:

Colli
03-28-2003, 11:31 PM
:D That's kinda what I was thinking, lith. It COULD be true.. the facts COULD be evidence but aren't NECESSARILY evidence. :)

Oooh.. I like your siggy. I just noticed it!

lithorose
03-28-2003, 11:35 PM
Why thank you!

Now, if you want a real convincing theory, I may have to post my 'Harry Potter is Communist' theory!:D

Xazinon
03-28-2003, 11:38 PM
Well, I suppose the theory has a bit going for it, but if you look hard enough you can find links between any two things you like. It's all in the interpretation, and the hallmarks of a good conspiracy theory. *sigh* I miss the ol' X-Files.... :)

Harry a Commie huh? Well, Gryffindor does seem to wear a lot of red... ;)

Colli
03-29-2003, 12:19 AM
Now that you mention it...

StarGazr
03-29-2003, 02:00 AM
Oh, don't even get me STARTED on the whole Snape/Vampire thing... Colli tried that last night and I just sat there and stared at the screen like... oh no...
This is an interesting theory... not that I necessarily believe it, but it's interesting and has a lot of evidence to support it. Then again, Remus, Sirius and James (yeah I guess Peter could be included) were very close, and maybe Remus is just being a good friend to James and taking care of his son cuz James can't... dunno... it's almost June!!!

Fleurdelacour
03-29-2003, 08:27 AM
Originally posted by Xazinon
Harry a Commie huh? Well, Gryffindor does seem to wear a lot of red... ;)

lol! :D Well, he could be in a secret alliance with Lenin's ghost for all we know!

Mmmm, interesting theory, but it seems a bit to far fetched for my liking.

JKR said we'd never see a live James, yet if it is James trapped in Remus' body, then wouldn't that make James alive? So we'd be seeing him.

Seriphus
03-30-2003, 07:44 AM
Interesting theory, but I don't believe it. It definitely doesn't seem as plausible as the Snape/vampire theory and I'm not 100% sold on that one. The clues aren't particularly convincing e.g:

"'I certainly don't want Harry dead...' An odd shiver passed over his face."
I thought the shiver came before "I am a werewolf" rather than after "I don't want Harry dead".

Lupin, who was "both shaken and pleased," comes over to congratulate Harry on his spectacular Patronus.
Well I'd be quite shaken if I'd accidentally transformed into a werewolf the night before and put my friends in danger.

relawney said that Lupin "positively fled" when she offered to crystal gaze for him.
I thought this was one of the red herrings in book 3 to make us think the bogart turned into a crystal ball for Lupin rather than the moon.

Several times, Harry wonders whether Lupin may be able to read his mind.
As he does with Dumbledore and Snape as well.


Serphy

StarGazr
03-30-2003, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by Seriphus
relawney said that Lupin "positively fled" when she offered to crystal gaze for him.
I thought this was one of the red herrings in book 3 to make us think the bogart turned into a crystal ball for Lupin rather than the moon.

See, but at the end of book 3, doesn't Hermione point out that the bogart became a full moon, and Remus admits it... I don't know, it's been some time since I've read it...
I do like this theory, it's very interesting... but the more and more I think about it... you gotta remember that this is a children's novel... wouldn't that go right over their heads, even if the adults who read it would be like "oh wow!!"??

Seriphus
03-31-2003, 06:59 AM
See, but at the end of book 3, doesn't Hermione point out that the bogart became a full moon, and Remus admits it... I don't know, it's been some time since I've read it... That's true, but my point wasn't to do with what the characters think, rather what we, the readers, think. We're supposed to be guessing what scares Remus the most and by putting that bit in about the crystal gazing we're led to believe he's scared of crystal balls. Now maybe he does have some fear of them that will become clear in later books, but I find that unlikely. It's more plausible that that was put in the book to mislead us at the time, and we all know that the Hogwarts staff do tend to avoid Trelawney. ;) :)

StarGazr
03-31-2003, 08:53 AM
Ohhh OK.. :) I would avoid Trelawny too... she's just too weird, even for me... we'll just have to wait and see about Remus... that or write it ourselves ;)

Kristin
03-31-2003, 09:57 PM
Throughout the series Harry is indundated with clues that he might be a heir of Gryffindor, and if he is, that probably means James was before him, which would explain the red sparks.

Even if Harry were the heir of Gryffindor, what on earth does that have to do with red sparks?!


Personally, I wonder why so many readers have latched on to this "heir of Gryffindor" theory. I believe that JKR has specifically said Harry is not going to be an heir. But somehow people persist in believing it to the point that we've developed this whole scenario of "oh look! a clue that shows Harry is descended from Gryffindor" and that it will be only a matter of time before the truth is revealed. ... And I will be laughing so hard when it doesn't happen. :LOL: :rolleyes:

Seriphus
04-01-2003, 06:10 AM
Even if Harry were the heir of Gryffindor, what on earth does that have to do with red sparks?! The Heir of Gryffindor theories come from things linking Harry to his house such as he is a Leo and Gryff is represented by a lion; his parents lived in Godric's Hollow, as in Godric Gryffindor etc. One of the 'clues' is that when he got the correct wand at Olivanders it shot out red and gold sparks: Gryffindor's colours. Hence the connexion of red sparks

Ravenclaw
04-07-2003, 03:33 PM
I agree with Seriphus... (well, all her posts, but the one describing other reasons to Remus's reactions in particular).

Lupin, who was "both shaken and pleased," comes over to congratulate Harry on his spectacular Patronus.

You'd be shaken too if you thought you saw your dead best friend again in animal form... if that makes sense.

Lupin has "no hesitation" about what Harry's father would think. (Chapter 18)

Of course he would know! How well do you know your friends? God, me and my friends finish each others sentances! Remus, James, and Sirius all grew up together. You think they don't know each other well enough to know what they would think of something?

Upon hearing that Harry hears his mom being murdered by Voldemort whenever a dementor is near him, Lupin made "a sudden motion with his arm, as though to grip Harry's shoulder, but then thought better of it." (Chapter 10)
For his own safety, he can't afford to let his emotions get the better of him, so he is trying to restrain himself. His emotions will make him weak, and he might let the truth slip. He wants to touch his son so badly but he (wisely) restrains himself.

Um... no. I think Remus is just a very paternal, sympathetic figure... like an uncle to Harry, rather than a father. He probably felt Harry's pain because he must have thought of that night all the time and Harry, being there, remembering it...

When Harry tells Lupin he is hearing his mum's voice louder, Lupin looks "paler than usual." Harry then tells Lupin how he hears his his dad's voice for the first time trying to old off Voldemort so his mom could escape. "'You heard James?' said Lupin in a strange voice." (Chapter 12)
Why would Lupin react oddly to Harry hearing James? Because of the strange circumstances he realized it wasn't James saying it, it was Lupin.

Again, must we forget, Remus was one of James's best friends! Of course he'd sound strange... it's all haunting for him.

I don't like all this 'body switching' talk, especially with Remus and James. Rather than emphisizing Remus's character, it's really emphisizing James's. Argh, I hate all these 's' names... Anyway, like JKR, Remus is one of my favorite characters. I'd hate to think that all he was was James trapped in his body. And why on EARTH would Remus switch bodies with James? And wouldn't James have changed secret keepers beforehand or after? Shouldn't he have known that it was Peter?

*sigh*

It's too confusing. OK, I won't deny it could be true, but I really don't want it to happen.

Ditto to the "Heir of Gryffindor" (duh duh DUH) theory.

Though the communist thing sounds promising.... ;-)

Seriphus
04-08-2003, 11:12 AM
Yeah, apart from anything I LIKE Remus as Remus. I don't want him to suddenly be someone else. :(

Whoever came up with the theory seems to forget what close ties Remus had with both James and Lily. Of course he's going to react as he does, he's hearing stuff about two of his closest friends who have been murdered by a dark lord.

I think the only clue really going for this theory is the fact that switching spells are perhaps likely to make a more prominent appearance in future books, and this would be one way in which it could happen.
But as much as I sometimes wish I wasn't such a cynic, I do think this theory is a load of Ballacks. ;)

Ravenclaw
04-09-2003, 03:56 PM
Wouldn't it be tragic if Harry switched bodies with someone accidentally and Harry's body was killed by the dark lord, along with that person, and Harry (Like Lupin, in this theory) was stuck in the other body forever?

What if it was Ron?

Or... *gasp* What if it was Malfoy!?

OK, sorry, that was too good... However, that's something for fan fiction, and i doubt that the above would ever really happen in future books.

Pengi
04-09-2003, 04:31 PM
*gasp* Oooh... that sounds like the kind of fanfiction I'd like to read, Raven :D

As for the theory... wow, that's very thorough evidence. I'm not completely sold, but it is a cool idea. I like the idea of there being something secret about Lupin (er, again).

lithorose
04-09-2003, 04:44 PM
There's no way anyone could ever write a good fanfic with THAT idea.;):D

Elbereth94
04-24-2003, 09:51 PM
Its interesting, but I think its a bit far-fetched. That would be waaaaaaaay to weird and confusing...plus, I think James would have made Lily do something like that, not the other way around.

But I do agree it would be a brilliant fanfiction piece. **Sits down and calmly waits for someone to write it**:o

lithorose
04-25-2003, 01:05 AM
lith whispers to Elbereth: (it's already been done! But I can't post a link as it's a little too, ah, colorful for the MI;))

Peregrinning Took
02-16-2004, 01:35 AM
Well, to me, this seems a bit too "wishful thinking of a fan-fictionist" to me.

_______________

When Voldemort Killed James
by PT

James is dead. Voldemort killed him.

End.

_______________

Not that I don't want James to be dead........It just seems a little far fetched.....

LuthienElentari
02-18-2004, 12:16 AM
I personally think the theory is a little too surreal fo the Harry Potter books but then again you should never underestimate the power of JKR's
craziness.

owl
02-29-2004, 06:10 AM
I agree with you Luthien
Although its not impossible in the wizarding world I don't think James would like to turn into a werewolf himself!

But its an interesting theorry:)