Politics and Social Issues (SPOILERS!)

[lithorose]

Goblet of Fire introduced us to politics in the Ministry of Magic, the issue of house-elf welfare, and the role of the Media in Harry's life. In Order of the Phoenix, JKR takes us more deeply into these worlds. (ah, sounds like a school essay, doesn't it?)

Seriously, though, there are a lot of new issues to talk about, a lot of which are relevant in today's political climate. Like the issue of government control of education, where the government steps in and tells the educators what is and isn't appropriate to teach. (though, clearly the issue is exxagerated in OOTP.) Or Harry's trial in front of a hostile jury, who refuses to admit it could possibly, *maybe* be wrong in its accusations, and its railroading Harry Potter in an attempt to trick him, shut him up and discredit him.

Someone (*cough*Elwen*cough*;)) mentioned a similarity between the rules on the barn in Animal Farm and the rules set up by Professor Umbridge. They certainly are similar. But there's others, too. Like Umbridge's title, High Inquisitor, which seems to be a takeoff of the Grand Inquisitor. Or any number of restrictive political regimes that either blindly go on as they are in the face of a problem or attempt to crack down on the problem in a heavy-handed manner than tends to make matters worse.

Or the issue of the role of the media. JKR's got into some legal fanangles, and clearly doesn't like a lot of the media attention she's gotten since Harry Potter became a mega-success. It seems to me that a lot of her frustration with the media, with mis-representation and prying into her personal life has found its way into Harry Potter's life.

Well, that's probably enough to get the ball rolling. What do you think about all of it? (or any of it?)

[susanna]

There's a lot in it... I don't know whether you got the hint about Sirius' parents who never were real Death Eaters but first supported him.

I wonder about the consitution. How does the minister of magic get elected?

And what rules are there about what the minister may do and what not? He behaves as a dictator, with Umbridge being his Under Secretary.

Thanks for opening the thread!

[Elwen]

There are lots of issues concerning political compliance.... the sort of people who run along with something without backing it outright - the sort of thing that keeps authoritarian regimes going for some while! So that is one issue there....


The various levels of intimidation and manipulation - the fiddling with information and thoughts - that is scary.

I was shocked how topical this was in the light of media reaction to the gulf war. Everyone wo posts or lurks over at CE sees that there is no such thing as truthful media information.... Of course it is overplayed, but I think JKR gives some important messages there.


The importance of not letting something you think to be true be silenced (I love how the Quibbler or whatever it is called gets passed around after it is prohibited to do so).


Orwell isn't far away in this - although he woulod not appreicate the comparison, I'd guess. And yes, I would also say this if it weren't just his centenary at the moment.

I passionately believe that the messages of Animal Farm and of 1984 are absolutely important!! So I am happy that kids get some of that through HP. :)


I certainly took some ideas to heart that I read in books when I was a kid... mostly stuff packed into stories. That's what stories are for, and that is why Orwell the political journalist packed his ideas into a story like Animal farm.


So we have a story about peope standing up and risking a lot for what they believe to be the truth. We have a story about civil courage and people standing up to unfair authority in their very won ways - even small contributions count: not everyone can make a splash like the Twins, and small gestures can be powerful!

We also have various examples of people who go along with new regimes because they hope for personal advantages of various kinds - and again, there are the big crooks (Umbridge, and Filch, not to speak of the elder Malfoy) and the small ones who just take an opportunity, or those who are just scared (Like Cho's Friend, the traitor: and I think Cho was right in trying to stick by her anyway, egven if what she did was wrong!).


So I think there are lots of interesting thoughts about regimes that are trying to control thought.

And I believe that in this day and age a mesage like this is more important than ever.

Elwen

[ElfTBD]

Oh, where do I begin?

I mean, this book (book 5) is jammed packed with all sorts of political issues...One of the things that got me was the issues around loyalty (slight disclaimer here: I don't like GWB. Never have. Didn't vote for him.)...

Fudge reminded me a lot of GWB with his "If you're not loyal to the ministry, then you're an outlaw"...(if you're not with us you're against us)...I mean, I bet in the "real world" the Order of the Phoenix would be considered terrorists...then there's the whole free speach thing and being persecuted for a dissenting opinion....

Then there's the McCarthy like stuff with Umbridge and her using Slytherin students as her lackeys....

Then there's Voldimort's Hitler-like qualities....

Well, That's a start...I do have to get back to work (and curb my gushing over the new book...)

[ChianaWeasley]

I dont have the book in my hands at the moment, but I really like the almost satire she slips into the story. And i like that she kept the war, and all of the different country arguments going on right now.

Chiana stands and salutes to George Orwell

I really like his writing, anyone who is brave enough to write how they feel about world issues is high on my list. :)

[Athelas]

JRRT once said that LOTR was a mythologogy of the meaning of death. It appears to me that JKR is writing a series of books that revolve around how we treat one another. She goes from the high politics of enslavement and the power of one race over others right down to how we treat our friends and family. Now that I've had a few days to reflect on OOTP, what stays with me the most is the scene from Snape's memory.

Also, the idea of racial identity: mudbloods, half-bloods makes me think of various American laws that put people in different categories such as any drop of Negro blood made you a legal Negro, or quadroons and octoroons and the different rights you may have. It's uncomfortable (but important) for me to remember that the US has this history in the not-so-distant past.


I've enjoyed the HP books since I was given TSS/PS for my fortieth birthday as really good stories, but this one has definitely given me more to think about.

[susanna]

Actually I really love the HP books for how they deal with political issues, doing it in way that is suitable for children/young people, in an invented world that is a bit simpler than the real world, but this makes things really clear.

I love it that she makes clear what is good and evil. Voldemort is not just evil because he is the Dark Lord and Dark is evil, or because he revolted against God or something like that. He is evil because he is racist, because he uses the three unforgivable curses, because he kills just for fun (more or less.)

I like this. It's better than "us is good" and "they is evil".

But it's great as well that good and evil are not only important in high politics but in the school yard as well.

I like it as well that there are three parties: The ministery, the deatheaters and the "good guys". I think there was even a line: There are not only good people and deatheaters.

[Mirdan]

there's also that whole deal with the House-elves, the wizarding world's treatment of them, and especially Hermione's libertion front, S.P.E.W. this reminds me a lot of the abolition movement for the liberation of slaves not only in the U.S., but also in any of the Imperialist nation that had slave labor. but what makes the House-elves' case even more interesting is that they all seem to want to serve :confused:

speaking of Animal Farm, Umbridge sort of reminded me of Napoleon! "All wizards and witches are equal...but some wizards and witches are more equal than others" ;) :D

i'm also curious as to how the Minister of Magic is elected. if JKR did model the government of the wizarding world after the British system, then does that mean that the wizarding world has a Parliament system? how does the electoral process work then? do they even have a written constitution?

heh. got a little geeky back there :o

[ElfTBD]

Originally posted by susanna
I love it that she makes clear what is good and evil. Voldemort is not just evil because he is the Dark Lord and Dark is evil, or because he revolted against God or something like that. He is evil because he is racist, because he uses the three unforgivable curses, because he kills just for fun (more or less.)

I like this. It's better than "us is good" and "they is evil".

But it's great as well that good and evil are not only important in high politics but in the school yard as well.


well, I don't think she makes it exactly clear on who is good and evil...there are definitely the people we know as the good guys and the obvious bad guys, but I think JKR puts a lot of grey area into it...There's a feeling that, even knowing who the official bad guys are, there's still a lot of people we're not sure about...heck, even Harry was doubted by Dumbledore!!

[susanna]

She does not make it clear, who is good or evil, but what is good and evil which is much more important.

Yeah, the S.P.E.W. movement. I love Hermione.... The wizards (though I don't know about Dumbledore ;) ) take it for granted that house-elves want to be enslaved. That they are happy with it. I think the S.P.E.W. movement is something she brings from her Muggle Parents background to the Wizarding world.

She seems a bit ridiculous trying to free elves when they don't want to be freed, and sure, this is a difficult thing... I mistrust all the attempts to free women from outside, especially to free them with the means war, and I think that all the feminists who welcomed the Afghanistan war because it would free the women of Afghanistan fell victim to propaganda - nobody cared for the women of Afghanistan before 9-11, and nobody cares for them now.

On the other hand side I think that it's only by massive brainwashing from early childhood that a woman believes that she herself is of no importance and that her only happiness is in the happiness of her husband and of her children.

So Hermione has a point in thinking that house-elves should be free and in not believing all the stuff about "but they want to serve".

But she is a bit foolish (well, she is only fifteen) in the means she chooses.)

[ChianaWeasley]

Hermione is getting alittle frantic with the SPEW stuff. I love Hermione with all my heart, but shes gotta find something else to protest against. OH! I know...how about...

Support the Destroy Kreacher Fund

SDKF

(sid-kif)

yeah!
much better
:D

[Pippin]

Great thread!


The HP books are far from being preachy and I love them for it, but yes, those „political issues“ seem to become more and more important over the course of the series…

Being a lawyer, maybe I´m easily alerted to such questions, but ever since HP PS I´ve wondered how the Minister is elected, how their trials work, how the wizarding world in general is organised politically and socially – and I found many points I wasn´t happy with, that I found questionable.

After reading OotP I now realise with relief that Jo Rowling *meant* them to be questionable.


If you look at the way trials are conducted (both Harry´s hearing and the DE trials he sees in Dumbledore´s pensieve), they wouldn´t pass as “fair trials” even by the lowest standards of the European Convention on Human Rights, and many U.N. conventions.

I mean, a secret trial? Changing its time and place without telling the accused? No defense lawyer provided?

Those are the marks of show trials in authoritarian regimes!


There seems to be no separation of powers at all within the political system of the wizarding world – the Ministry has both legislative as well as administrative powers, in other words they themselves enforce the laws they make.

Also, their courts and judges seem not to be independent of the ministry, which they should be. The minister himself presides over Harry´s trial!

In other word, the wizarding world has never ever heard of checks and balances, of the separation and mutual control of political powers!


There seems to be a severe lack of democratic traditions as well. I don´t think we´re told how the Minister and all other important positions are elected or appointed, but I get the impression that it is not the classical democratic or parliamentary approach. It seems that there are a lot of powerful committees in the magical world that make these decisions, but their members’ legitimation seems to stem from personal authority (through experience, age, social standing) rather than democratic election. This can sort of work (there are societies where it does) but I wouldn´t say it´s ideal.


Anyway after reading OotP I´m now convinced that Jo Rowling meant the readers to find these conditions questionable, and even a little scary. The plot of OotP is less a battle against Voldemort than a battle against this all-powerful bureaucracy. Of course, it´s a battle against Umbridge and Fudge, but they´re only representatives of that system, really. (Although I wonder what Umbridge´s real ambition and loyalties are, but that can be discussed somewhere else.)

I didn´t expect this – I didn´t expect that the wizarding world would split into three groups (Order & supporters, Ministry & supporters, Voldemort & supporters) so soon and so clearly. And I didn´t expect this separation between Ministry and Order to be healed so soon again (although we can´t be entirely sure it has). I´d just got so used to the good guys being this brave underground resistance movement it´ll be downright boring to see them on friendly speaking terms with the minister again.


As to the regime Umbridge introduces at Hogwarts, yes, there´s something very Orwellian about it. And I love how it gets undermined. That´s so heroic – no matter if it´s Fred & George´s Grand Exit or some small but powerful (as Elwen has pointed out) gesture of disobedience.

Needless to say, the DA are my heroes. And I want to see the kid reading OotP that wouldn´t agree. Thanks for that message, Jo. :)



As ElfTB as pointed out, there´s a very powerful message about loyalty, too: Loyalty, particularly blind loyalty, is not an end in itself. I mean who doesn´t hate Percy for his behaviour towards his family, but it´s his (misguided) loyalty to the Ministry that is at the root of his actions, just like Harry´s (or Dumbledore´s, Ron´s, Hermione´s etc.) loyalty to the good cause is at the root of theirs.



As for good and evil, I really like how Jo Rowling explores the motives behind the good and the bad guys´ actions. Like susanna said, they´re not bad because they´re bad, but because they´re racist, because they´re cowards, because they wanted to follow a strong leader, because they´re power hungry, because their family background seems to permit nothing else… You´re always given a reason, and therefore a basis for your own opinion. It allows you to sort out your own feelings towards them better: Some of them you may want to see dead, some of them you might pity, some of them you might want to see converted to the good side.




Oh and lithorose, I love your sig!!! :rotfl:

[Elwen]

Pippin, awesome post!!! :notworthy

You bring out some of the crucial points of the discussion so much better and you sum up a few crucial basic ideas that are in there...

but before I comment on that:


- good call on lithorose's sig - I cracked up yesterday when I noticed it. It is really funny! And I like the avatar, too :) Because I like the Neverending Story (book only).




There seems to be no separation of powers at all within the political system of the wizarding world – the Ministry has both legislative as well as administrative powers, in other words they themselves enforce the laws they make.

Also, their courts and judges seem not to be independent of the ministry, which they should be. The minister himself presides over Harry´s trial!

In other word, the wizarding world has never ever heard of checks and balances, of the separation and mutual control of political powers!




cough Britain cough Lord Chancellor cough


But yes, you are right.... interesting that a book like this could make people aware of issues of this kind. Though without some very profound education in politics and constitutional matters peope won't be able to translate it quite into these terms.

But an uneasiness about such things is pretty crucial.





What you describe, Pippin, makes it much clearer to me that we are not just talking a post-September 11 book (as some have pointed out, and as some, including me, have hinted at).

This is a book that deals with authoritarian regimes ... and how people react to them. It is funny because I have just written a long post about old people's stories over in the bar - but all those various reactions of people under pressure remind me of the various stories of people's ways of surviving with the Nazis - some as collaborators, most by just ducking and keeping quiet.

It is quite shocking, now that I think of it, how government thinking (influenced in part by people like Lucius Malfoy) influences some goings-on in school - and a lot of it happens on bullying level (Draco Malfoy, suppoerted by Snape). Various people become instruments of that power in small ways - and perhaps they don't always know whom they serve.

For example, if we assume that Snape is really against Voldemort, is he aware that he serves Voldemort by supporting Draco's bullying?

This is the level where authoritarian regimes touch everyone - not just those people who play a role like Harry (and who might end up facing the powers themselves, in Harry's case the Ministry and Voldemort - in other cases the Secret Police or whatever). ANd this is where everyone has to resist. This is also the level where almost everyone has not got the courage to resist in that small way.

If Rowling manages to pass on the message that civil courage on that level does make a difference then I hope her books stand the test of time for centuries! We thought a lot about this in school back in 1988 and the following years (a crucial time for Austria's attitude to history) and I would have liked to have had a book that taught me some basic thoughts on this. It was hard to understand the lessons we learned from the oral histories of our families we collected for a research project....

I firmly believe in the power of such subliminal messages taught by stories (that is how wisdom has been passed on for ages) and I know that there were crucial lessons I learned from stories as a child.

So I'd be happy if Harry Potter has such an effect.


I really believe that in our times governments are taking on powers that they should not have (hey, secret trials and detentions do happen in some Western countries these days) - I think we'll all have to be on our guard against the government and the media!



(sorry for rambling but I think this is really crucial)

Elwen

[Kristin]

When I read GoF and then when I read OotP, I thought J.K. Rowling really had a low opinion of journalists. She paints them in such a bad light that I was wondering if she was reflecting her personal feelings. As someone who went to journalism school and now works for a newspaper, I tend to be sensitive to this type of misperception about the media.

But I do see that she's teaching an important lesson (whether or not this is how she really views the press and whether or not that view is accurate). As Moody would say, "Constant vigilance!" Even in countries with a free press, that doesn't mean that the government can't come to exert some form of control over the press. You can't believe everything the media or the government tell you. Ain't that the truth.

Rowling shows government and journalists in an unflattering light. But, I agree with Pippin that she probably meant for it to be scary. And it's realistic in the sense that things don't always turn out in the most fair way. "Life isn't fair. It's just fairer than death."

Marvelous post, Pippin! :notworthy

What I thought was so interesting is how Hermione says "this means the Ministry of Magic is interefering at Hogwarts" (or something to that effect) .... and she knows that this is a bad thing merely because the Ministry is involved and well before she finds out what it's trying to do.