Dumbledore (the wizard, the mystery)

[Kristin]

Dumbledore has always been a slightly enigmatic figure ... but in Order of the Phoenix, JKR really piles the layers on.

It seems that he is totally a good guy, no chance of his being a double agent, etc. Yet we still don't know what that gleam of triumph was all about. Plus, in OotP, Dumbledore really shows his fallibility ... he is old, he makes mistakes.

So here's a place to discuss the mystery that is Albus Dumbledore.

The thing I found most interesting was this:
"I cared about you too much," said Dumbledore simply. "I cared more for your happiness than your knowing the truth, more for your peace of mind than my plan, more for your life than the lives that might be lost if the plan failed. In other words, I acted exactly as Voldemort expects we fools who love to act.

"Is there a defense? I defy anyone who has watched you as I have -- and I have watched you more closely than you can have imagined -- not to want to save you more pain than you had already suffered. What did I care if numbers of nameless and faceless people and creatures were slaughtered in the vague future, if in the here and now you were alive, and well, and happy? I never dreamed I would have such a person on my hands."

Also, Dumbledore earlier says to Harry, "I was ... prouder of you than I can ever say."

This goes well beyond mere affection. Dumbledore has said he *loves* Harry and, even more astounding, that he cared more about Harry than multiple innocent victims.

He says that anyone who watched Harry's life would want to save him more pain. (That's probably true. As one of the letters Hermione got in GoF for "breaking Harry's heart" said, that boy has been through enough.)

Yet Dumbledore's actions seem to go far beyond common empathy and compassion. Is it just because Dumbledore is also aware of Harry's heroic destiny? Or does Dumbledore have some other connection to Harry that we don't know yet?

[Tiger Louie]

Originally posted by Kristin
Yet Dumbledore's actions seem to go far beyond common empathy and compassion. Is it just because Dumbledore is also aware of Harry's heroic destiny? Or does Dumbledore have some other connection to Harry that we don't know yet?

I still wonder if there isn't some family connection. He was obviously very fond of James too, and still very involved with James and Lily after they left school. Perhaps the rellies aren't all dead after all? Uncle Albus, perhaps?

Tiger

[Ravenclaw]

Ha! I wrote a fic about that once... but it's complicated so I won't even start.

Yes, Dumbledore loves Harry a lot, almost father-son like. I think it's sweet. Um, no speculations as of yet. But good thread I think.

[ChianaWeasley]

I view Dumbledore as a father figure for every student at hogwarts. He's the big sheild that protects all of them, makes them feel safe when they sleep at night even though things are happening outside the grounds.

My friend, believes he may turn out to be evil. Which is an interesting proposition....noodle scratcher that one is

[lizz]

I do want to know a lot more about Dumbledore. about his position in the wizarding world, why Voldemort fears him that muich, why (almost) everybody respects him, about his powers as a wizard, his knowledge about amost everything, his background. There are a lot of questions.

It is nice and comorting to have a powerful good figure behind you, but where do powerful and good actually come from? And eventually it is not a good thing to rely that there is someone who will fix it all.

I´m curious about the twinkle too but I cant imagine Dumbeldore on Voldemorts side. Like Dumbledore is playing the good guy until he defeats Voldemort and then is the bad guy himself. I dont think so.

[Lady Haleth]

Dumbledore has been Harry's unofficial guardian since the day James and Lilly died. The Prophesy required it. It was he who handed the baby over to Petunia with a warning and you can be sure that for the next 11 years he watched the boy grow. So it's not surprising that he would develop a great affection for Harry and a desire to protect him even before they actually met. Even without the heroic deeds Dumbledore would have felt a special bond with Harry. I doubt we will find out that they are related, it's more that what started as a duty to the past (James and Lilly) and to the future (the Prophesy) turned into the love a parent (or grandparent) has for a child. He is so proud of his boy.

[Pippin]

Great thread, Kristin! :)



Another revealing little passage about Dumbledore is when the ancient examiner (Madam Marchbanks?) remembers him taking NEWTs – “he did things with a wand that I´ve never seen done before”.



I do wonder why people are so obsessed with finding out who is secretly related to whom. As if love and affection couldn´t exist outside family bonds… :confused:




I agree that although Dumbledore is, as Chiana has pointed out, a great father figure for all the Hogwarts students (I doubt that even the Slytherins generally dislike him, for example), his relationship with Harry is special. I was very moved by his own account of it at the end of OotP – someone said he/she was disappointed by the lack of REVELATION in this conversation, but the revelations are there, they´re just about people´s emotions, not so much about events.


So I was moved, because from books 1-4 I frequently got the impression that Dumbledore was expecting a little too much of Harry – live a normal schoolboys life with all the history and dreadful family experiences on his shoulders? I´m pleased and relieved to find out that Dumbledore was aware that Harry was having a really, really hard time, and that he tried to help him (although not always in the best possible way, as he admits himself).




Anyway so what was it that formed the special bond, apart from the circumstances that put baby Harry´s fate into Dumbledore´s hands? Maybe Dumbledore feels a little bit guilty? Maybe he feels that he was somehow to blame for the death of Harry´s parents? I don´t think he is, but he might have thought so.


Posted by Kristin
This goes well beyond mere affection. Dumbledore has said he *loves* Harry and, even more astounding, that he cared more about Harry than multiple innocent victims.
Was anyone else slightly disturbed by this line? I mean, I´d think Dumbledore cares about* every* life. :eek:




Posted by lizz
And eventually it is not a good thing to rely that there is someone who will fix it all.
I think Harry & co. will find out one day that they ultimately have to rely on themselves. That´s what growing up is about, isn´t it? But it´ll take a while yet (two years to be exact ;)). I can see this happening in the same way like when in LOTR Gandalf leaves the hobbits at the Grey Havens – he gave them all the help they needed to fulfill the big Quest, but now they´re grown up and can look after themselves.




I don´t believe he´s in any way evil. Dumbledore is just this rock all the waves break on, not one to break himself. Like Hermione says at some point in OotP, “if we can´t trust Dumbledore we can´t trust anyone.” Now, it might be a realistic part of growing up if Harry & co. found out that they couldn´t trust him after all, at least not totally, but I really don´t want to see that. Trust in Dumbledore is the foundation for every thing the good guys do – like Harry´s instant feeling that “they are saved” when Dumbledore turns up at the scene of the final battle – and the only way I can see them going on living without Dumbledore to lean on is because he dies (after fulfilling his lifetime task of defeating Voldemort). But I can´t see them lose this support in any other way than that.




That said, I think that Dumbledore´s sense of humour ROCKS. I love it. :)

[Pilgrim Grey]

Was anyone else slightly disturbed by this line? I mean, I´d think Dumbledore cares about* every* life.
I have a feeling that this (well, all of Dumbledore's actions in the book, but this bit particularly) line/speech was supposed to distance Dumbledore from the God-like image that he's had from the previous books. We've seen him fight and NOT win, we've seen him have to go into hiding, we've seen him cry and we've seen him admitto being wrong. And why does Dumbledore need humanising? Because he's going to die IMO, and it would be too strange if he died without showing any signs of fallibility...

:(

[Kristin]

Even though Dumbledore shows his human weakness, he's no less awe-inspiring.

We don't see him defeat Voldemort, but we don't see Dumbledore get beaten by Voldemort, either. Dumbledore is immensely powerful. So I think if he does die, it will be quite a blow.

On a side note: If Harry is the one with the power to defeat Voldemort, why is Dumbledore is the only one Voldemort ever feared???

[Colli]

That's interesting Kristin, I think this is part of it. Before we find out about the Prophecy, I think Voldemort tries to put on the impression that he doesn't take Harry, a small boy, too seriously. But actions speak louder than words: look at all the effort he's gone to to try to kill Harry. Then we found out about the Prophecy, and all the supposed power Harry has. Remember that Voldemort still doesn't know the full scope of power that Harry possesses.

The prophecy says that Harry will have the power to vanquish the Dark Lord, and we have to assume that he'll only be 17-going-on-18 when the final confrontation occurs. No one can come to their full amount of strength when they're 17, so I assume that "the power" doesn't refer to Harry's magical power AT ALL... maybe there WON'T be a final duel where Harry whips out his wand and performs magic worthy of Dumbledore. I think "the power" refers exclusively to what Dumbledore later describes as love.

Anyway, back to Dumbledore. :)
Was anyone else slightly disturbed by this line? I mean, I´d think Dumbledore cares about* every* life.
Dumbledore didn't SAY he didn't care about the innocent lives that might be lost... he just said he cared more for Harry. Which is understandable, I think. You do tend to love someone close to you a bit more than a stranger, right?

[Telchar II]

I accept that explanation, but I too am still queasy about the line. And it's more extreme than we're remembering it, isn't it? Doesn't he say something like it didn't matter if "untold numbers of wizards die in the future" as long as Harry is safe? That is bad morals. It is also bad Gryffindorism.

On a slightly differently subject, I believe it was in Tom Riddle's memory that we discover that Dumbledore's hair was red before it turned white. Might be a connection to Lily. Might not.

[Kristin]

Yes, it does say that Dumbledore's hair is auburn. (Of course, it could just as easily mean he's related to the Weasleys.)

But I'm hoping for a more specific Harry-Dumbledore connection (such as them being related). And I'm sure that JKR could do it in such a way as to avoid being cheesy.

DUMBLEDORE: "Harry, I must confess that when I told you I was going to tell you everything, I didn't actually tell you everything. Harry, I'm your grandfather."
HARRY: "Oh, right then."
DUMBLEDORE: "You aren't surprised?"
HARRY: "Well, I knew there must be a reason that you were nice to me. Plus, I did see you in Tom Riddle's diary, and you had auburn hair. And auburn is a shade of red. And my mom had red hair. So I knew it must mean something. I'm related to the Weasleys, too, since they all have red hair."

[Colli]

Now now Kristin! You forgot the part where Dumbledore says "You don't know it, but wizards live longer than muggles. I'm over 150 years old." ;)

[Elwen]

I think you are doing Dumbledore some injustice when you are disturbed about his saying

"Is there a defense? I defy anyone who has watched you as I have -- and I have watched you more closely than you can have imagined -- not to want to save you more pain than you had already suffered. What did I care if numbers of nameless and faceless people and creatures were slaughtered in the vague future, if in the here and now you were alive, and well, and happy? I never dreamed I would have such a person on my hands."


In fact it is Dumbledore who is disturbed about his own feelinghs there - he is expressing bad conscience. And I don't think that he ever deliberately thought 'I don't care about countless deaths as long as Harry is safe' - what he says here is the result of long thinking about what was wrong about his actions, the result of the recognition what his love for Harry meant for others. He is expressing his bad conscience in a drastic way, the way he would have found to explain why it was not right for him to protect Harry as much as he had done although he would feel so bad about putting yet another burden onto him.

So, what we see here are the thoughts of a man caught between compassion/love and responsibility who has chosen his responsibility for the lives of many over his love for an individual.




BTW: I am still very intrigued about Dumbledore's brother...


Elwen

[Lanen]

Elwen, well said! you've hit the nail on the head. Dumbledore is confessing to Harry his fault of letting the world go hang if only Harry can have another year of not having to bear the burden of the prophesy.

And Pippin, you will recall that Gandalf (1) in The Hobbit, left Bilbo and the Dwarves to get on with Smaug while he dealt with other things [the Necromancer], and (2) was only with the Fellowship for a VERY short time - they had to get to Rivendell alone, and make their own decisions after Moria. Even though Gandalf helped turn the tide at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, Frodo and Sam were on their own until AFTER they had accomplished the Quest.
That's the trick with old, wise, very powerful advisers/ magicians (Gandalf, Merlin, etc.). They CANNOT be the central actors in the Hero's quest: they must move aside, or be moved aside by fate, before the completion of the Quest so that the Hero can discover his own inner strength and bring the Quest to a successful conclusion without the Adviser's presence or direct assistance.

Looking at things from a plot point of view, I cannot see that Dumbledore will make it to the end of book 7 alive, unless he is somehow imprisoned/ terribly injured so that he does not affect the final outcome of the battle between Harry and Voldemort.

:( sniff. :(

[Pippin]

Posted by Pilgrim Grey

I have a feeling that this (well, all of Dumbledore's actions in the book, but this bit particularly) line/speech was supposed to distance Dumbledore from the God-like image that he's had from the previous books. We've seen him fight and NOT win, we've seen him have to go into hiding, we've seen him cry and we've seen him admit to being wrong. Posted by Kristin
Even though Dumbledore shows his human weakness, he's no less awe-inspiring.
That´s very true. Quite amazing, actually, but I feel the same about him. You know how admitting to weaknesses can be a sign of strength? That’s how I see Dumbledore. And of course he´s still awe inspiring just by his magical powers, as in the duel with Voldemort. I don´t see him “not winning” at all – it was Voldemort (“Tom” :D) who preferred to Disapparate, the coward. :p




by Colli
I assume that "the power" doesn't refer to Harry's magical power AT ALL... maybe there WON'T be a final duel where Harry whips out his wand and performs magic worthy of Dumbledore. I think "the power" refers exclusively to what Dumbledore later describes as love. Quite possible. But Dumbledore possesses the same kind of power. Maybe not in a way that will make it specifically possible for him to defeat Voldemort (that´s Harry´s job), but Dumbledore at least understands that power, and Voldemort doesn´t, and fears him because of that. I mean, all those bad guys that are driven by the idea of being immortal and omnipotent and everything go SO crazy if anyone even HINTS they might not be, after all. It´s usually their greatest weakness.




Posted by Elwen

In fact it is Dumbledore who is disturbed about his own feelings there - he is expressing bad conscience. And I don't think that he ever deliberately thought 'I don't care about countless deaths as long as Harry is safe' - what he says here is the result of long thinking about what was wrong about his actions, the result of the recognition what his love for Harry meant for others.
…
So, what we see here are the thoughts of a man caught between compassion/love and responsibility who has chosen his responsibility for the lives of many over his love for an individual. Well said, Elwen. :)

Does he actually still think that Harry would be better off not knowing? I see how the “responsibility” factor could have been the driving force in his decision to finally tell Harry, but didn’t he also think that it would be good for Harry to know? That´s how I read it – not “I hate to tell you but I must” but rather “I was wrong not to tell you because you have a right to know”.



by Lanen
And Pippin, you will recall that Gandalf (1) in The Hobbit, left Bilbo and the Dwarves to get on with Smaug while he dealt with other things [the Necromancer], and (2) was only with the Fellowship for a VERY short time - they had to get to Rivendell alone, and make their own decisions after Moria. Even though Gandalf helped turn the tide at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, Frodo and Sam were on their own until AFTER they had accomplished the Quest.
That's the trick with old, wise, very powerful advisers/ magicians (Gandalf, Merlin, etc.). They CANNOT be the central actors in the Hero's quest: they must move aside, or be moved aside by fate, before the completion of the Quest so that the Hero can discover his own inner strength and bring the Quest to a successful conclusion without the Adviser's presence or direct assistance. Erm, did I ever say that this wasn´t the case with Dumbledore? :confused:

I mean he´s away a lot of the time, too. But he, like Gandalf, has this habit of turning up again just when you expect him least and need him most. ;)

What I was talking about was rather his FINAL moving aside (his death, as I see it, nothing less), which I don’t think will happen before Voldemort is ultimately defeated. He might not affect the outcome, Harry will play the big part in this of course, but I really want Dumbledore to live long enough to see it done. :)

[Elwen]

Does he actually still think that Harry would be better off not knowing? I see how the “responsibility” factor could have been the driving force in his decision to finally tell Harry, but didn’t he also think that it would be good for Harry to know? That´s how I read it – not “I hate to tell you but I must” but rather “I was wrong not to tell you because you have a right to know”.


I understand it the same way... except that it is perhaps also

“I was wrong not to tell you because you absolutely need to know in order to survive and I should have seen that earlier”.




Elwen

[Lembas]

BTW: I am still very intrigued about Dumbledore's brother
You mean Dobby? ;) ( see Snape! thread for details ). :D

In all seriousness, like some have said, I think Dumbledore has become an ersatz father for Harry , what with watching over him a long time ( going so far as to post Mrs. Figg as a watchout on Privet Drive ) , plus giving Petunia instructions to care for him, binding it with the spell that protects Harry as long as he's with blood relations. If Dumbledore were truly Harry's kin, he would keep Harry at Hogwarts all the time, wouldn't he?

I think we'll probably either find out that Harry or Dumbledore are the heir of Gryffindor. If it's Dumbledore, that could possibly explain why he's the only one Voldemort ever feared, as Voldemort is the heir of Slytherin-he could think he and Dumbledore are evenly matched and that Dumbledore could possibly overthrow him.

If it's Harry, that might tie in with the Prophecy that Harry and Voldemort will face each other and only one will survive. If Harry's the heir of Gryffindor, he also could be equal to Voldemort, who is the heir of Slytherin. That could be why the Prophecy doesn't boldy proclaim who the winner will be. Of course this is all assumption and we don't really know that the heirs of Gryffindor ( if one still exists ) or Slytherin are equally matched. Or if it will really come down to a face-off between two heirs. It might just be one heir ( Voldy ) against Harry.

But it's interesting that Harry in COS was able to wield the sword of Godric Gryffindor and defeat the Basilisk. Dumbledore just explained it away as Harry's being meant to be in Gryffindor because the sword he was able to use was Mr. G's. But I kind of think that Harry was able to wield G's sword sucessfully because he's the heir of G. I dunno. Just speculation, but fun.

[Telchar II]

Kristin, I'm not so quick to dismiss your theorizing about Dumbledore's relations.

After all, we know that Harry is safe at Hogwarts. It could be because Hogwarts is a powerfully magical place full of powerfully magical people. It could also be because Dumbledore, a family member, lives there and calls it home.

Also, didn't you also find very intriguing Sirius's statement that all the "pure-blood" families in the wizarding world are closely related to each other? We still don't know who James Potter is related to.

He, of course, did/does not have red hair. But still....

[jesuisalleeaujardin]

hmm... i think dumbledore's concern for harry doesn't go beyond mentor and student.

dumbledore's throwing himself onto other things in the wizarding world as well, which (fortunately for us as we're provided with this excellent 7-tome story; unfortunately perhaps for harry&co. as it'll prolly be harder for them to live normal lives if they survive book 7 :LOL: ) happen to center around harry.

right now in book 5 it looks as though everything hinges upon harry. but, like what gandalf told frodo in the movie version of lord of the rings ( :swoon: :notworthy: ), "there are other forces at work in this world besides the will of evil," there might be more to the duel between harry and voldie in the end.

and dumbledore has some knowledgeable foresight about it. i think it is his love for his world that has got him wanting to take care of harry the best that he could.

a mentor would take on a student only if he or she sees that student fit enough to carry on his tradition and contribute something more to his craft. maybe that's how dumbledore feels about harry. and if so... harry's a lucky dawg, pardon the painful padfoot pun, hehehe. ...

also... this just came to me now... with regards to names and semantics... isn't it great that dumbledore's name has the word "dumb" in it? for the greeks... i think, if i'm not mistaken... ignorance is the first sign of wisdom... or admitting ignorance is. it shows teachability, humility, openness to ideas and mental flexibility... the mark of a wise person to me. there's a difference between knowledge and wisdom, and if i'm not wrong, the greeks prize wisdom over knowledge... and jk rowling studied latin... anyways, i just think it's rowling's very cool way of showing people what she considers true wisdom :)... i prolly should cross-post this with the name thread, haha. ...

jardin

[Elwen]

Originally posted by Telchar II
Kristin, I'm not so quick to dismiss your theorizing about Dumbledore's relations.

After all, we know that Harry is safe at Hogwarts. It could be because Hogwarts is a powerfully magical place full of powerfully magical people. It could also be because Dumbledore, a family member, lives there and calls it home.

Also, didn't you also find very intriguing Sirius's statement that all the "pure-blood" families in the wizarding world are closely related to each other? We still don't know who James Potter is related to.

He, of course, did/does not have red hair. But still....

A ost full of great food for thought, as always :)

As to your first point: I do wonder, in this case, why Dumbledore would not keep Harry at Hogwarts. He was clearly worried about how Harry was treated at the Dursley's even if he didn't know the full extent of it.

But then, it is *Lily's* blood that protects Harry -because she dies to save him. And it isn't likely that Lily is related to Dumbledoire, Muggle that she was (as far as we know).



As for your second point: I am intrigued about that, too! Harry *must* have some relatives in the wizarding world. I keep wondering why this hasn't occurred to him!!!


Elwen

[jesuisalleeaujardin]

ya _ the potters' lineage isn't specified... it'd be great if we suddenly found out that james is actually related to sirius in some way, that's why they got along pretty well, :LOL: ...

jardin

[Lord Schaudt]

We know that Tom Riddle said that him and Harry were similar.(raised by muggles half bloods)

well heres my take, i think that its possible they are exact copies, only switch good and evil and Slytherin and Gryffindor

Dumbldore is prolly the most powerful living wizard, he amazes everyone, and fudge is barely astounded by his proclamtion that he will waste fudge, umbridge and two aurors, please a weasel

and if all the pure blood familes are related, and im pretty sure dumbldore is a pure blood(his brother was a wizard, whats the chance of two Anti Squibs in one family?) then it is %99.9999 chance they are related

[Telchar II]

Thanks, Elwen. :) You're too kind. :o

Without getting into theories that might be too controversial :cool:, on the one hand, and without being too obvious, on the other, I'd just say that there's still a remarkable amount that we don't know about Lily and James:

-- Who are they related to? We finally found out a little about James's parents, through Sirius: they seem to have been nice folks, and they evidently kept a good Sunday table. (House elf?) But that's not much. I have to think that if there's no surprise awaiting us in the Potter/Evans family tree, JKR would have spilled the beans on this subject long ago. Ergo: constant vigilance!

-- As Head Girl and Head Boy, how much of Dumbledore's mind were Lily and James privy to before they graduated? What plots (or counterplots) might the three of them have hatched together in Dumbledore's office, as Voldemort's power began to stretch out over the wizarding world? (And which of the portraits will tell us, after Dumbledore is dead? :eek: )

-- What did Lily and James do after graduating? They were Head Boy and Head Girl; they must have gone on to good jobs -- Aurors? Healers? Unspeakables? (Likely for James, because Petunia seems to hold his apparent lack of a job against him. Or is "that awful boy" really Snape?)

-- What did James and Lily die of? Avada Kedavra, or something else? IIRC, Harry remembers only one green flash, and he never hears the words "Avada Kedavra."

-- After Lily and James were murdered (if they were ;)), was there a funeral or memorial service? If yes, who attended? (Did Petunia?) Was there a meeting of the Order before or after the service at which plans were made for the future?

-- Where are Lily and James buried? Why hasn't Harry asked this question before? Why hasn't Dumbledore volunteered this information?

-- Where did James get his money?

-- What's happened to the Potters' house in Godric's Hollow? Will Harry return there in Book 6 or 7?

-- What was Lily up to while the Marauders were becoming Animagi? Was she working up some secret magical achievement of her own?

Lastly, Elwen, in response to your point, I must confess to being somewhat mystified over the nature of Harry's magical protection. It seems to take two different forms: first, there's something in Harry's blood because he has been marked by his mother's self-sacrificial love. This seems to work even when Harry is not at Privet Drive (i.e., during the final conflict in SS).

Then there's the whole Harry's-safe-at-Privet-Drive business, which Mr. Weasley and Sirius seem (from their owls) to buy into, so we have something beyond just Dumbledore's word on this one. But that magic, then, is not innate to Harry, because it only works at his aunt's house. So it seems to be something different from what marked him when his mother died. The Privet-Drive magic also still works (it seems) even though Voldemort has "broken through that particular barrier," as Dumbledore puts it at the end of GF, by using Harry's blood in the spell that gave Voldemort bodily form.

Finally, I remain intrigued by Dumbledore's description of what Petunia did by taking Harry in. Didn't he describe it as a bargain, or a deal, that she accepted? Or am I misremembering? If that is so, then what did Petunia get out of this bargain, other than fulfillment of her auntly duties? And what motivates her to keep it when Dumbledore reminds her of it? We presume she would be delighted to be rid of Harry once and for all -- so what forces her to keep him? What will happen to her, and the other two Dursleys, if she doesn't keep her end of the bargain? It has to be more than the Wrath of Dumbledore, right? Will Voldemort come for her? If yes, does she know this? Is that why the notion that he is back frightens her so?

Well, that got a little OT. Sorry. We now return to your regularly scheduled Dumbledore programming....

[PhineasNigellus]

Are you sure James was head boy even though he was never even prefect?

I'm not doub ting your word but it just seems to me a bit strange...

[Faid]

Anyone else feel as though Dumbledore's surprise appearance near the end of Phoenix was very similiar to another fragile "wizard"s entrance?

http://www.bradchoate.com/past/images/swe2_yoda_saber.jpg

[Colli]

[OffTopic!!!] I just wanted to answer a few things. ;)
Originally posted by Telchar II
-- What did James and Lily die of? Avada Kedavra, or something else? IIRC, Harry remembers only one green flash, and he never hears the words "Avada Kedavra."
I personally am pretty confident that they died of AK. Moody/Crouch confirms in GoF that AK was the curse that bounced off Harry, and it makes sense that it was the same curse Voldie used to kill Harry's parents. Have we ever seen Voldie (or one of his henchmen) use a different curse to directly murder someone? (I'm exluding Bellatrix because we don't KNOW which killed Sirius.)
-- Where did James get his money?
:) From his parents, as Rowling said in an interview.
-- What's happened to the Potters' house in Godric's Hollow? Will Harry return there in Book 6 or 7?
Harry might return to Godric's Hollow, but I was under the impression that the house was destroyed with Voldemort's attack.

Sorry.. forgive me!


There's so much information about so many people that we haven't gotten.. but I personally would also really like to know about Dumbledore's background. Not just who he's related to, but his whole story. Because he's been extraordinary since HE was in school.

[Elwen]

LOL, Faid :)

As so often, it seems that all these 'old wise man (or whtever creature Yoda is) types are somehow related, in a literary way :D


Telchar - I have to heap more compliments on you after that last post.

All these questions are definitely valid (I am least convinced about the secrets a head boy/girl might discuss with the headmaster - but they seem to have been friends with Dumbledore after they left, it seems).

I really hope we hear more of this.


And why has Harry never even asked about what happened to Godric's Hollow?



Time for Dumbedore to *realy* reveal all - REALLY and finally.... (why dores this remind me of PJ's take on the 'last (well nearly) alliance'? ;) )




Another thing that just occurred to me, rereading book 1 -

Dumbledore is said to have defeated Grindelwald in 1945. When is Harry Potter set? It came out in 1997 - so about 1995? In any case, about 50 years before CoS Voldemort was at school and up to no good. About 1945, or just after I'd say.

Sounds too suspicious to be coincidental to me... was V taking up the baton from Grindelwald or something?

The information about this comes from Dumbedore's chocolate frog card which supplied the crucial information about the Phoilosophers' stone and Nicholas Flamel - might it conmtain another crucial hint? Or are these red herrings?


Elwen

[Colli]

Ah, timeline. (Here's a thread (http://www.muggleinformer.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3355) that I never fully got around to developing) The Sorcerer's Stone takes place in 1991-1992, so you can go from there. :)

We know this because of The Chamber of Secrets, it says in "The Deathday Party" that Nearly Headless Nick died on October 31st, 1492. It also says it was his 500th deathday, therefore that particular event took place on Halloween 1992, Harry's second year at Hogwarts. :)

[Moxie]

Originally posted by Lord Schaudt
...im pretty sure dumbldore is a pure blood(his brother was a wizard, whats the chance of two Anti Squibs in one family?)

Colin and Dennis Creevy are Muggle-born, and both wizards (I wonder if there are more Creevy kids?). We don't know if Hermione Granger, Dean Thomas, or Justin Finch-Fletchley have siblings (I'd guess Hermione's an only child, or she'd have mentioned any siblings to Harry and Ron by now - no idea about the other two); Lily Evans had one sister that we know of. Based on very limited evidence, we have 50-50 odds for a Muggle-born witch/wizard's siblings to also have magical ability.

[swiftsnowmane]

Aww....Sir Nicholas DeMimsy and Harry's parents share the same deathday......:(

[Seriphus]

I definitely think the fact that Tom Riddle was at school while Grindelwald was around is more than a coincidence. Maybe Voldemort's fear of Dumbledore has something to do with the fact that he defeated Grindelwald.

And the fact that Dumbledore has caused the downfall of a dark wizard gives him something in common with Harry (maybe it runs in the family ;) ).

I've always wondered whether perhaps Dumbledore married a muggle; whether references to him being a muggle-lover (so to speak) go beyond him letting half-bloods and muggle-borns into his school. We're supposed to be finding out a bit about teachers' spouses in the books. That would leave possibilities for a non-blood relation to Lily. Are you sure James was head boy even though he was never even prefect? 'Now yer mum an' dad were as good a witch an' wizard as I ever knew. Head Boy an' Girl at Hogwarts in their day!...' (PS/SS, chpt 4, The Keeper of the Keys)Aww....Sir Nicholas DeMimsy and Harry's parents share the same deathday...... Spooky! :eek: ;)

[Telchar II]

Thanks for the backup, Seriphus!

Perhaps Dumbledore was playing matchmaker? :eek: