How important should romance be? [Archive]

qleap

07-08-2003, 03:53 AM

I admit I really like the romantic side of the books... well it doesn't have to be completely about it, I'd like soemthing like GoF, bit of romance but at the right time :)

I was just thinking about this while reading... I mean, how old are them? 15? I see NO WAY she can write two more years and not include at least some romance (of course considering it's a children's book... well not really, it's a children-young adult series, and it's supposed to be read growing up, not all together at age 6)

I mean...errm.... do you remember what YOU were like at 15???? :eek: ;) :o :D

Fleurdelacour

07-08-2003, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by qleap
I mean...errm.... do you remember what YOU were like at 15???? :eek: ;) :o :D

Some 15 year olds are pregnant! I'm an innocent 16 year old!

There has to be more bloody snogging in the next two books, you get legal at 16, and Harry was hormonal enough in OotP! :p ;)

I just need to say one thing...

RON AND HERMIONE!!! WOOOO!!!!:D :notworthy

Helenia

07-08-2003, 12:38 PM

Yeah, but just because someone's legal (and hormonal) doesn't mean that they necessarily get some! Not that I'm talking about anyone in particular or that I'm in any way bitter...

So it is a coming of age series, but not a coming-of-age in relationship terms. There are romances going on, but that's not the point of the books - that's Harry, his history and destiny, and the struggle of good vs evil, not Harry and his harem! I think the balance she has at the moment is great, and I'd be quite happy if Harry didn't see any more romance (although I am getting Ginny hints from OotP). Ron and Hermione have to get together though!

Pippin

07-08-2003, 12:58 PM

I think the balance in GoF was good... it was a bit too much in OotP for my taste though.

It depends on what you mean by "romance", if it´s about people´s real feelings for each other, and being driven by them to do some mad, crazy, heroic, or stupid things, it´s a powerful plot device. If it´s just about snoggage and teenage angst and embarrassing situations I can perfectly do without any romance of that sort, thank you.

Elwen

07-08-2003, 01:23 PM

I quite like the idea to get some of the romance stuff going on... I like that at times Harry just gets to forget about all his troubles and his main (and equally tricky, it seems to him) problem is suddenly that girl and what he said to her, and stuff like that.

That seems to ring true, in a way. I don't want anything very explicit, really... but I think Harry will continue to be distracted by his interest in women and that's just how it should be. I'd find it cheesy, though, if he'd end up with a 'sweetheart for life' at the end of school :barf:

I don't want to see stuff like this between the grown-ups. I'd say that the order really has other things to do, and I do NOT want Remus paired up nwith the next available woman njust because we think that he needs some comfort. :rolleyes:

Elwen

Marchwarden

07-08-2003, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by ChianaWeasley
Wanna see some snoggage!!!!

Thats my quote :D

I feel so proud!

*ehm*

tries to feign a professional approach

I think we should see some romance, particulary R/Hr
:D

Yes, ChianaWeasley, I shamelessly stole your quote. It was just too perfect; I couldn't resist.

BTW, is Hr "Hermione" or "Harry"?

PhineasNigellus

07-08-2003, 02:18 PM

do you think in the wizarding world girls liked the boys with the bigger wands ?

Fleurdelacour

07-08-2003, 03:09 PM

Phineas, you dont happen to watch Graham Norton do you? lol :D

Well, look at Arthur and Molly ;)

Kristin

07-08-2003, 07:07 PM

I love the way JKR has handled it so far. It's not overly romanticized... it's awkward, which makes it more realistic. :)

It's interesting that the kids have more casual, shorter relationships ... but adults had more significant romances when they were in school (the Potters, the Weasleys). In fact, the most risque bit seems to be when Mrs. Weasley talks about going back to the dormitory at 4 a.m. after going on a midnight stroll with Mr. Weasley!

It depends on what you mean by "romance", if it´s about people´s real feelings for each other, and being driven by them to do some mad, crazy, heroic, or stupid things, it´s a powerful plot device. If it´s just about snoggage and teenage angst and embarrassing situations I can perfectly do without any romance of that sort, thank you.
I agree. :)

So it is a coming of age series, but not a coming-of-age in relationship terms. There are romances going on, but that's not the point of the books - that's Harry, his history and destiny, and the struggle of good vs evil, not Harry and his harem!
Definitely. :) It goes along with what I said in the matchmaking thread. The way Harry got over Cho is very revealing. He seems to have realized that crushes and little romantic dramas aren't that significant -- at least not when stacked up against the war and the threat of Voldemort.

one.elven.girl

07-08-2003, 10:11 PM

"Romance" is to a point, important, since it does occur on occasion when you're a teenager.;) Really, a lot of what makes the Harry Potter books so good is that while they are half intense struggle and strife about a very big problem - Voldemort, that is, they are half just, well, I wanna say teen angst, which makes them so much more realistic. Part of what makes these stories so wonderful is that they do seem real, because while Harry is encountering situations most could never dream of encountering, he is also encountering things that happen to people every day, all over the place.
JKR, I think, knows this, and has reached quite a good balance between the two aspects of Harry's life... just because he has that scar of his and might be the only thing going to stop Voldemort doesn't mean he's exempt from being a teenager!

ChianaWeasley

07-08-2003, 11:29 PM

I think alot of us, enjoy reading about their awkward romantic situations. Im sixteen, and its still goofy-awkward. And to be true to the real life thing, you gotta have some romance. Otherwise...well they'de just be robots who perform magic as school work. :rolleyes: Nope,nope cant have that now can we?
so! as a result of J.K.'s wonderful sense of timing we have the romance we craved to read about. Well....there was a lack of Hermione and ron, but she did warn us about that after all.

I agree with Fleur.
Ron and Hermione!!!!
*cheer*cheer*
*uopa*uopa*
:beer: :beer:

LOL, sorry, but we gotta have our fill of romance and fluff
;)

susanna

07-10-2003, 07:15 AM

I like it the way she does it. Very realistic, no kitsch. I agree to Elwen that I would not like it if Harry at the end of book seven Harry married Ginny and Ron married Hermione. It's okay if they are in a relationship - but it should be clear that it's not marriage.

(I know I know - Mr. and Mrs. Weasley met each other at school. There were and still are couples like this. But in our time they are exceptions - at least in Germany. One of the reasons are contraceptiva - anybody knows about how they do this in the Wizarding World?)

What strikes me is the fact that the grownups seem to try to make the young people get into romantic relationships before it's the right time for them - at least the boys. Say making them look for a partner for the Yule ball.

Elfëa

07-10-2003, 06:38 PM

I'd love to say "I WANT TO SEE SOME SNOGGAGE!" but the realistic and lit crit side of me says "No!"

I agree with most of the above then (I'm just too lazy to quote it...) :p

Can't we just have one kiss?? but just because someone's legal (and hormonal) doesn't mean that they necessarily get some! Not that I'm talking about anyone in particular or that I'm in any way bitter...

Well... I'm bitter. :p (and too old.)

Kristin

07-10-2003, 07:49 PM

I just don't want to see anything that's going to make us all go "Awwww!!!" followed shortly thereafter by :barf:. In other words, no cheese!

Cheese is cute and sweet but often unrealistic. On the other hand, awkwardness is very realistic. :)

So I enjoyed reading the scenes with Harry and Cho, but I would not have liked them as much if they went all mushy. Fortunately, I can't imagine JKR writing anything silly and mushy. :cool:

swiftsnowmane

07-10-2003, 08:18 PM

LOL, I can see her writing "mushy" only if to parody it! (As in a mushy moment being spoiled somehow, thus becoming awkward)

ChianaWeasley

07-12-2003, 11:43 PM

I agree, I want to read about ron and Hermione kissing. But if that does happen, I know she'll write that they'll be awkwardly friendly towards one another. Its realistic, but I can stand that.

ah....R/Hr

:swoon:

New Initiative: search for the real life Ron Weasley!!!
:D
;)

susanna

07-13-2003, 06:15 AM

Ron and Hermione:

I think it will be very realistic - well, I don't know if it's realistic but I think it will be a clear statement about love - Hermione seeing that the friend she knows well and likes well as a person without any illusions will be a better partner than the great famous romantic Quidditch player. (Though I wonder - I think Hermione has always been quite realistic about Victor Krum. She likes him but she won't fall victim to his romantic advances.)

ChianaWeasley

07-13-2003, 12:21 PM

I never thought Hermione will go for Viktor either, she doesnt care for him in that way. Shes very non chalant about him. And sometimes I wonder if she did it to provoke Ron...probably not but just a thought to play with.

they are meant to be together, or at least i think so.

Ron Locksley
&
Hermione Bagelle

:rolleyes:
:p
;)

dont mind me its early

Moxie

07-13-2003, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by susanna
Hermione seeing that the friend she knows well and likes well as a person without any illusions will be a better partner than the great famous romantic Quidditch player. (Though I wonder - I think Hermione has always been quite realistic about Victor Krum. She likes him but she won't fall victim to his romantic advances.)

I doubt Hermione/Viktor will really last, but I think they're good for each other in the short term... Hermione gets someone who sees her as more than someone to help with difficult homework and other problems, while Viktor seems to have found one of the few girls in the wizarding world who treats him as a regular guy rather than worshipping him as a Quidditch god ;) Possible additional good side effect: Viktor attended Durmstrang, a school noted for its DE-favorable prejudices - it doesn't even admit Muggle-borns :mad: Going out with and getting to know a Muggle-born witch like Hermione, who is both a decent person and quite magically talented, likely goes a long way to showing Viktor how stooopid the Durmstrang/DE attitude towards Muggle-born wizards and witches really is.

Ron may well eventually be the right person for Hermione... but he's still got a lot of maturing to do.

Marchwarden

07-13-2003, 11:46 PM

Originally posted by Moxie
I doubt Hermione/Viktor will really last, but I think they're good for each other in the short term... Hermione gets someone who sees her as more than someone to help with difficult homework and other problems, while Viktor seems to have found one of the few girls in the wizarding world who treats him as a regular guy rather than worshipping him as a Quidditch god ;) Possible additional good side effect: Viktor attended Durmstrang, a school noted for its DE-favorable prejudices - it doesn't even admit Muggle-borns :mad: Going out with and getting to know a Muggle-born witch like Hermione, who is both a decent person and quite magically talented, likely goes a long way to showing Viktor how stooopid the Durmstrang/DE attitude towards Muggle-born wizards and witches really is.

Ron may well eventually be the right person for Hermione... but he's still got a lot of maturing to do.

In a similar light...

As much as some people dislike Cho, I thought that their brief relationship offered Harry the opportunity to learn some valuable lessons about dating, and for Cho to work through some of her conflicted emotions.

ChianaWeasley

07-15-2003, 11:31 AM

Well yes i agree their relationship was good for the both of them, but i just think it was a stepping stone towards Ron and Hermione ending up together.

Cho who I will openly admitt I loathe, may also have been a good experiance for Harry. But only in a way, to measure everything he doesn't want in a girl. Cho makes Ginny look a hundred times better for any guy dont you think? Its almost as if Ginny and Cho switched places really.

I apologize to all you Cho Chang fans, but i just didn't care for her

Deagol's Bane

07-15-2003, 03:06 PM

Well as I said before and elsewhere,
I don't mind the romance as long as it's played largely for laughs exactly like in Goblet of Fire. That was about perfect, IMO. It almost could have gone slightly too far in Order of the Phoenix, IMO, but JKR did well to keep it light. In the end, it all turned out to be what it is usually, I think- nothing much more serious than crushes and teenage peer pressure and friendship. Anything more, and it gets too mushy and unrealistic, IMO.

Marchwarden

07-15-2003, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by Deagol's Bane
Well as I said before and elsewhere,
I don't mind the romance as long as it's played largely for laughs exactly like in Goblet of Fire. That was about perfect, IMO. It almost could have gone slightly too far in Order of the Phoenix, IMO, but JKR did well to keep it light. In the end, it all turned out to be what it is usually, I think- nothing much more serious than crushes and teenage peer pressure and friendship. Anything more, and it gets too mushy and unrealistic, IMO.

To maintain realism, it should develop to greater degree as the characters mature (17-year-olds don't usually see relationships the way 14-year-olds do), but it shouldn't be the primary focus of the Heroic Trio.

That said, every circle of teen friends seems to include the token "mushy couple"; if JKR wants to develop two minor characters into this, it would hardly spoil things (plus, Ron could make cracks about them).

ChianaWeasley

07-15-2003, 10:43 PM

I like the romance J.K. Rowling writes, like ron and Hermione arguing after the Yule ball. And he finishes by stuttering ,"see there.....completely missed the point!..."

LOL, its heartfelt but funny at the same time, and your right, not too deep

Lanen

07-16-2003, 07:17 AM

Deagol's Bane -

I have to agree with Marchwarden, I think JKR will have to allow the 'romantic relationships' to change as our heros grow up. I think she has done a fabulous job, keeping a light hand on the relationship tiller but at the same time showing us Harry being completely insensitive (and Cho being so horribly confused) and coming to realise that looks are nice but don't teach you anything about the person inside. He has thought Cho was cute for ages, but when he gets the chance to do something about it he cares considerably less for Cho than for, e.g., Hermione. Which is as it should be.

As for Hermione and Viktor - gang, why should there be the need for Hermione to *choose* between Viktor and Ron? Ever hear of real friendship? Heavens, Hermione has hardly met anybody yet! Give the girl a chance to grow into herself. Ok, I admit, I want her to end up with Ron too - but not YET! You know so little of the world at that age. WAY too soon to marry, for most people (though it does work out for some).

It will be fascinating to see what JKR does with it. I trust her, she's a fine writer with a sure instinct and a light touch. Though I should point out - yes, obviously romance has to take second place to saving the world from Voldemort. But in times of war, romances tend to accelerate. Look at WWII, all those marriages before the soldiers went off to war. When sudden death is a real possibility, people tend to want to celebrate life and to share their lives with a loved one. Our heros are still very, very young, but given that they are in the front lines - well, you can mature awfully fast when you need to.

I can't wait for the next two books. I think Rowling is in the midst of writing the secular Chronicles of Narnia for our time. More power to her keyboard!

Deagol's Bane

07-16-2003, 07:07 PM

Yeah, Lanen/Marchwarden, I reckon you're right. Really, I do trust JKR to keep things in the sort of perspective that I think would be best. I certainly have no reason to doubt her abilities to write stuff that I like. She hasn't yest failed to do it. :)

ChianaWeasley

07-18-2003, 10:53 PM

I trust Rowling as well, though I miss the style of the last four books after reading OoTP.

And dont you think writing hp on a type writer is more romantic than a computer? LOL, the 'more power to her keyboard' sprang that thought.:o

susanna

07-19-2003, 02:37 AM

A typewriter more romantic than a computer? Don't think so. Only perhaps writing with the hand - in a cafe.

Marchwarden

07-20-2003, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by Lanen
Deagol's Bane -

I have to agree with Marchwarden, I think JKR will have to allow the 'romantic relationships' to change as our heros grow up. I think she has done a fabulous job, keeping a light hand on the relationship tiller but at the same time showing us Harry being completely insensitive (and Cho being so horribly confused) and coming to realise that looks are nice but don't teach you anything about the person inside. He has thought Cho was cute for ages, but when he gets the chance to do something about it he cares considerably less for Cho than for, e.g., Hermione. Which is as it should be.

As for Hermione and Viktor - gang, why should there be the need for Hermione to *choose* between Viktor and Ron? Ever hear of real friendship? Heavens, Hermione has hardly met anybody yet! Give the girl a chance to grow into herself. Ok, I admit, I want her to end up with Ron too - but not YET! You know so little of the world at that age. WAY too soon to marry, for most people (though it does work out for some).

It will be fascinating to see what JKR does with it. I trust her, she's a fine writer with a sure instinct and a light touch. Though I should point out - yes, obviously romance has to take second place to saving the world from Voldemort. But in times of war, romances tend to accelerate. Look at WWII, all those marriages before the soldiers went off to war. When sudden death is a real possibility, people tend to want to celebrate life and to share their lives with a loved one. Our heros are still very, very young, but given that they are in the front lines - well, you can mature awfully fast when you need to.

Perhaps it's only that we first saw them at 11, but they are still too close to children in my mind that I'd want to see anything past second base at worst.

As for Hermione, I'd like to see her with Ron, but maybe at the end of Book 7; now is too soon. Better yet, maybe at the end of Book 7, they should just be looking at each other and thinking: "Hey, I'd never noticed before, but he/she is very...attractive...and even though we sometimes infuriate each other, there's a strange sort of alchemy going on here..."

You are entirely correct about maturity in the presence of crisis. It would make sense for R&H to realize: "We might not have another day to live!", and act while they still can. I'd just rather that they wait.

Pippin

07-20-2003, 05:59 PM

The trouble is, they´d be SO YOUNG. All of them.

Now, I´m sure I´ll get into trouble with the younger members of this boardfor saying this , so let me start with a HUGE disclaimer - I´m NOT saying that you can´t have serious and long-lasting relationships before you´re 18 - but it´s not very common. Very few people find their partner for life at this young age (some do of course). Of course you can be serious about it at the time - it will mean the world to you when you´re in love. But statistically teenager relationships are usually short lived and more of the experimenting kind, trying to find out how relationships work at all, what matters to you etc.

I´m not generally opposed to the idea of any of the three kids having a relationship of this "experimenting" kind (or more than one - look at how Ginny´s going through one boyfriend after another :D). But I don´t want any of the "dream couples" to experiment with each other! I don´t want to see Ron and Hermione or Harry and Ginny (just as examples - insert your favourite couple here!) start an awkward, experimenting relationship in book 6 and dump each other again in book 7.

I want it to be FOR REAL - and if JKR can´t pull off the "real" convincingly and in a non-cheesy way, I´d rather not have it happen at all. Or, like March says, just hinted at, like our last look at Ron and Hermione at the end of book 7 should be at them giving each other a very meaningful smile, or something subtle like that.

Marchwarden

07-20-2003, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by Pippin
The trouble is, they´d be SO YOUNG. All of them.

Now, I´m sure I´ll get into trouble with the younger members of this boardfor saying this , so let me start with a HUGE disclaimer - I´m NOT saying that you can´t have serious and long-lasting relationships before you´re 18 - but it´s not very common. Very few people find their partner for life at this young age (some do of course). Of course you can be serious about it at the time - it will mean the world to you when you´re in love. But statistically teenager relationships are usually short lived and more of the experimenting kind, trying to find out how relationships work at all, what matters to you etc.

I´m not generally opposed to the idea of any of the three kids having a relationship of this "experimenting" kind (or more than one - look at how Ginny´s going through one boyfriend after another :D). But I don´t want any of the "dream couples" to experiment with each other! I don´t want to see Ron and Hermione or Harry and Ginny (just as examples - insert your favourite couple here!) start an awkward, experimenting relationship in book 6 and dump each other again in book 7.

I want it to be FOR REAL - and if JKR can´t pull off the "real" convincingly and in a non-cheesy way, I´d rather not have it happen at all. Or, like March says, just hinted at, like our last look at Ron and Hermione at the end of book 7 should be at them giving each other a very meaningful smile, or something subtle like that.

Pippin, what you're saying makes a huge amount of sense.

I suppose we incurable shippers are painfully aware that we're only getting 7 books, so maybe we rush them into things because it's better than leaving that aspect unresolved forever. Unless we get a flash-forward, so with R&H it has to be by the end of 7, or else be forever adrift in the realms of fanfic. Hence my preference, rather than teen dating that will probably fade away, for just a little foreshadowing that will leave us all feeling warm ideas about the unwritten future.:)

Lanen

07-21-2003, 07:35 PM

I guess I'm just a romantic at heart. I know, honest, I KNOW most teen relationships don't last - but these are very special teens, aren't they? Wizards and witches, at war at the age of 15 - i know it's unlikely, but two of my dearest friends in the world met at *school* , about the age of 12, and have been best friends ever since, and married for nearly 20 years now and going strong.

We can always hope. I really want Ron and Hermione to end up together - but I trust Rowling. Really. She'll get it right.

ChianaWeasley

07-22-2003, 11:28 AM

Well yes long hand is really sexy. But i find the typewriter to be the sexiest form of writing. Wouldn't a typed love letter slipped under your door just make you melt more then a computer printed one? And i dont mean the new electronic typewriter, I mean the honest to goodness typewriter where you press the round keys and push the scroll back to start the next sentence.
Chiana melts

as you can tell i have a thing for typewriters :o

Moxie

07-22-2003, 09:19 PM

Have you ever had to use one on a regular basis, Chiana? I didn't get an electric typewriter 'til high school revealing again that I am, in fact, older than dirt... and that old manual thing I borrowed from my dad to type school reports on was a $#%@ pain in the %$#! Glad I don't have to change any more ribbons, or get the keys unstuck after typing too fast, or you get the idea...

ChianaWeasley

07-22-2003, 10:56 PM

yep sexy
Of course I use a typewriter on a daily basis! I love to type on the typewriter, I loathe typing up stories on the computer. Yeah, actually I have a typewriter from a local writer :D

Lanen

07-24-2003, 06:30 AM

Chiana -

I vote with Moxie! I used an old cast-iron Royal typewriter of my mother's - 1920s vintage - all through high school, because electric typewriters were still very much a luxury (hey, you, me and dirt, Moxie! :D ). I have stronger fingers than you would believe, because the keystroke for the old Royal was about 2 inches (i.e. you pushed the letter keys down, *hard*, two inches so that the iron type would go through the ribbon hard enough to leave an impression. The keys stuck together on a regular basis, because I type pretty fast and those old keyboards just couldn't handle it.

BTW, you do know that the qwerty layout was designed to SLOW DOWN typists, didn't you? It's because anybody who used the things regularly got fast enough that the keys stuck really badly and constantly. That's why they tried to teach us to type to a regular rhythm!

I learned proper touch typing on an electric at school, though I did very badly at it. It took me AGES and tons of White-out (tm) to type a short story for my writing class in my sophomore year at high school.

I wouldn't go back to a manual typewriter for all the tea in Chiana :D ;) Chiana, I love that you are into your typewriter - it's dead nostalgic for me - but have you ever had to type something really long on your machine, to a deadline? Sexy, no - infuriating, yes. Though perhaps it's just because I'm such a lousy typist and constantly misspell things as I type. I'd have gone through an entire forest so far in my writing career if I'd been using paper instead of electrons, so if only for the sake of the trees, let's hear it for word processors!! YAYYY! :D

And I think a typed love letter, from either typewriter or computer, would make me boot the sender back into the pack and hope that the other wolves would devour him! If the guy can't bloody be bothered to take up a pen, stuff him! :devil: Can you imagine Mr. Darcy writing to Elizabeth Bennett on a typewriter?! :eek:

And, in a desperate attempt to get this back to topic - I can't see Hermione accepting love letters in anything apart from ink on parchment. From Ron or whoever... :D

ChianaWeasley

07-24-2003, 11:38 AM

:eek: Lanen, forshame,shame on you! I would never throw a man who wrote a love letter to me on a typewriter to the wolves;)

But with the description you gave me, I cant blame you for hating them. I do like the electric typewriters, I write on mine a good bit. But theres something about my manual that draws me.

Besides when i have a report due at school, I like to type it on the old one. Just to infuriate the mean teacher. Thats how they did it in earlier times, so they cant comment :cool:

But i still stick to my thought of typewriters(manual) are sexy:D

And on to the next subject!!!!

Bellatrix_Lestrange

10-26-2003, 05:59 PM

Backtracking a bit to Marchwarden's comments...

I have some news to report. A search of the JKR Quotes archive at the Sugar Quill turned up some hints she let slip apropos Book 7. Apparently:

- Book 7 will be huge, significantly larger than OotP;

- this is because, following the resolution of the principle plot, it will feature a comprehensive "aftermath" section which will reveal the eventual fates of all surviving major characters;

- JKR pauses after saying "surviving major characters" and warns that "there will be more deaths", and

- the aftermath portion is already written, so that as she pens HP6 & HP7 she knows in advance what destination each character is ultimately headed for.

So, assuming that they live to see the end of the Second War, any of the predicted pairings (and maybe some unpredicted ones) could develop into serious relationships well after graduating from Hogwarts, and we'd still see it without needing any books beyond HP7.

ChianaWeasley

10-26-2003, 09:51 PM

No more deaths!

She's leading on the public!

The death's she referring to are OBVIOUSLY that of voldemort and his evil followers ;)

Fleurdelacour

10-26-2003, 10:18 PM

I'gree with Chiana, again! Death Eaters... yes, they'll die...

But seriously, I'm really worried about Ron and Remus dying... IT doesnt bare thinking about! :(

MarySueMalfoy

10-27-2003, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by ChianaWeasley
No more deaths!

She's leading on the public!

The death's she referring to are OBVIOUSLY that of voldemort and his evil followers ;)

Ermm...I found this site by way of SQ, and I remember the quote in question. Although the likes of Draco and You-Know-Who do count as 'major characters', her apologetic phrasing strongly implied that she meant 'major protagonists'.

Sorry; nobody's safe. Given JKR's liking for plot twists, even characters in apparently safe roles (e.g. RW & HG) are in danger simply because readers are inclined to assume that they'll live, and JKR loves to hit us with the unexpected.

Kristin

10-27-2003, 06:14 PM

And what about the insinuations that Harry will die?

I'm thinking there's a bit of reverse psychology going on.

We expect that a non-major character will die. So JKR implies that a major character will die. So then we expect a major character will die. Then JKR kills a non-major character. And all of a sudden, she's actually not doing the expected thing. (Does that all make any sense?)

So will she also defy expectations by not having Ron and Hermione get together? Hmm...

Welcome to the MI MarySueMalfoy! :wave: Love the name! :D

ChianaWeasley

10-27-2003, 08:24 PM

No.

No.

and

No!

Ron and Hermione are certainly not going to be killed off!
And if they were I would simply hurl the book across the room and cry for days, but it will not happen, so I need not worry. :D

Besides, some things are just serendipitious, things like Ron and Hermione :D Yes they are going to get together

Melpomene

10-29-2003, 12:08 AM

Originally posted by ChianaWeasley
No.

No.

and

No!

Ron and Hermione are certainly not going to be killed off!
And if they were I would simply hurl the book across the room and cry for days, but it will not happen, so I need not worry. :D

Besides, some things are just serendipitious, things like Ron and Hermione :D Yes they are going to get together

...amidst the devastation of what had been their homeland, where the bodies of friend and foe alike lie sprawled...and with no controlling authority, the stunned survivors will begin to gravitate toward the mysterious pair, the Muggle-born witch with a vision of a better society and the pureblood wizard who, though the youngest son of his line, now bears the responsibilities of his family name.

The unmarring of Wizarding Britain will take time. The Wizengamot and its subcourts and magistrates will reconvene; the Ministry will be greatly reorganized, and is beginning to return to the tasks of dictating and executing policies ratified by the Wizengamot. The Aurors, grieviously depleted in number, will have to be recast in strictly domestic law-enforcement roles. High intensity operations, whether on British soil or abroad, are undertaken by the nine all-volunteer divisions of Dumbledore's Army. Hogwarts will reopen under the Headmastership of Severus Snape and the deputy headmastership of the Defense Against Dark Arts Professor, Harry Potter. And two wounded but indomitable survivors will unite their futures and, in so doing, cement a bond of equality between Muggle-borns and purebloods in the new United Wizarding Kingdom.

That's correct; after seeing the ruin that resulted when social and cultural influence corrupted administrative policy and the rule of law, the citizens of Wizarding Britain choose to emulate their Muggle neighbors and separate the role of head of state from that of head of government. Wizarding Britain will become a constitutional monarchy.

God save our Gracious King;
He can save anything...

ChianaWeasley

10-29-2003, 08:27 AM

Wait a minute.......that's not Hermione Granger and Ron Weasley you featured in that little tid bit is it? ;)

MarySueMalfoy

10-30-2003, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by ChianaWeasley
Wait a minute.......that's not Hermione Granger and Ron Weasley you featured in that little tid bit is it? ;)

Well, naturally. Didn't Harry have a prophetic dream in Ootp wherein he saw them wearing crowns?

The best part, of course, will be when two uninvited guests show up at the wedding/coronation. It turns out, you see, that Fred and George rather cleverly faked their deaths when the joke shop blew up, to throw the enemy off the scent and strike at unawares. Best prank they ever pulled.

Little Miss

10-30-2003, 05:19 PM

it'd be fun to see some of the adults get together.

i think most teen relationships fail because they're expected to fail. Ron and Hermione are expected to fall in love, possibly die for the greater good (or each other), or more likely get old and have babies and stuff. no failing there.

harry on the other hand i see as a kind of high school/college harry osbourne (of Spiderman fame). complex, rich, likes women but doesnt quite understand what they exist for, too caught up in himself to care about love.

thats how i see harry, and how i hope he turns out to be.

Kristin

10-30-2003, 06:27 PM

I agree. I would like to see some nice adult relationships just because they're more likely to be functional and normal. The teen relationships are so awkward and/or angsty. (Harry patting Cho's shoulder when she cried! :LOL: )

(And by "see" I mean an acknowledgement that they exist, not a focus.)

ChianaWeasley

11-01-2003, 10:40 AM

Well, now that I think about it....they ARE expected to get together, remain together and perchance die for the greater good. It's actually kind of depressing to think about, not very romantic either. I guess because it reminds me of the organized/arranged marriages I've read about.

BUT, that doesn't mean I don't want them to get together, I still do, but I'd rather it be gradual and not forced.

Melpomene

11-05-2003, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by MarySueMalfoy
Well, naturally. Didn't Harry have a prophetic dream in Ootp wherein he saw them wearing crowns?

The best part, of course, will be when two uninvited guests show up at the wedding/coronation. It turns out, you see, that Fred and George rather cleverly faked their deaths when the joke shop blew up, to throw the enemy off the scent and strike at unawares. Best prank they ever pulled.

Actually, I was going to have the Twins show up privately, after the ceremony. Only the surviving Weasleys, their spouses and Harry will know they're still around.

ElfTBD

11-06-2003, 11:59 AM

Honestly, I think the Ron/Hermione romance thing has already started...

no, really, hear me out on this one!

The way they interact and talk with each other reminds me of my parents, or any married couple...I think their love story will be more subtle: more of them suddenly realizing that they liked each other all along...

I have a feeling that Harry (as much as I think it would be cool if he got together with Luna) will avoid the romantic thing until after the war....like we read at the end of book 5, those things didn't seem important to him anymore...I always imagined the end of the series with Harry going off to some job far away in order to get back his sanity...kind of a riding off into the sunset, or like the end of Spiderman...

I also thought of Bill Weasly hooking up with tonks, but they didn't seem to have much "on screen" time together in the book...but that's just a random thought of mine...;)

Pippin

11-07-2003, 12:56 PM

by Melpomene
Wizarding Britain will become a constitutional monarchy.

God save our Gracious King;
He can save anything... :rotfl:
Melpomene, I definitely like your sense of humour. :D

As for who of the main characters will die – I’m sure Dumbledore will, and I’m sure it will be very moving and everything, but it’s not the thing I can’t see happening, it’s not the thing I’d scream at if it happened. On the contrary, I can hardly see it NOT happening. So maybe JKR meant just that.

Sorry, I’ve just realised this is not the “death watch” thread. SO about Ron and Hermione surviving, I’m sure they will. At least they’re much less likely to die than Harry is.

Because while Harry is this special guy with the special powers and a special mission, he’s been singled out from the start, he’s a “marked man” as JKR says, he doesn´t really have a normal life to go back to once his mission is accomplished. This is very different for Ron and Hermione. They´re both just normal people caught up in extreme events. Looking at other books and movies, those are usually the people that survive! The extreme events will change their world, they will make them look at their normal life with different eyes of course, but they´ll still be able to go back to it. And they have to as well, because they have to tell the other normal people about it and bear witness to what happened. The special heroes, the marked men, however, do have a habit of dying young. (Or riding off into the sunset at any rate.)

So arguing by the role of Ron and Hermione in the story (as opposed to Harry’s), I think they’re quite safe. :)

And I completely agree with the "married couple" phenomenon! :D

ChianaWeasley

11-10-2003, 06:45 PM

I have a feeling that Harry (as much as I think it would be cool if he got together with Luna) will avoid the romantic thing until after the war....

Well, I think harry will have a love interest. He may say he'll steer clear of the love situations but I don't think he'll stick to that. Besides, with the times he has had, harry really does need someone special, other then his friends, to be there for him. Perhaps...oh say.....Luna? :angel:

ElfTBD

11-12-2003, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by ChianaWeasley
Well, I think harry will have a love interest. He may say he'll steer clear of the love situations but I don't think he'll stick to that. Besides, with the times he has had, harry really does need someone special, other then his friends, to be there for him. Perhaps...oh say.....Luna? :angel:

hey, I'd be all for that...;)

or maybe a love interest will sneak up on him and be realized in book 7?

and if it's true about JKR having a section of book 7, I hope it's like a reunion kind of thing...I think that would be nice...especially since she's said she wouldn't write anymore books about harry (although, I really think she should write other adult books set in the wizarding world...not necessarily about harry, but maybe some of the other principles...I think a book about neville would be cool....)

SiriuslyInLove

11-15-2003, 11:10 AM

ive read fan fic where ppl say Ron and Hermione will end up together, others say Harry and Hermione or HArry and Luna or Harry and Cho because Cho will finally come around. some say Harry and Ginny....i mean we dont know wat JKR is going to do, but dont you remember in book 5 Dumbledore said "one must die for the other to die." so-if Harry kills Voldie, wont he die? becuz of that connection? and if he does survive i think he would be good w/ Hermione...'nuff said.

Bellatrix_Lestrange

11-15-2003, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by SiriuslyInLove
ive read fan fic where ppl say Ron and Hermione will end up together, others say Harry and Hermione or HArry and Luna or Harry and Cho because Cho will finally come around. some say Harry and Ginny....i mean we dont know wat JKR is going to do, but dont you remember in book 5 Dumbledore said "one must die for the other to die." so-if Harry kills Voldie, wont he die? becuz of that connection? and if he does survive i think he would be good w/ Hermione...'nuff said.

Actually, the prophecy maintains that they can't both live. So either H kills V, V kills H or they kill each other.

SiriuslyInLove

11-15-2003, 10:29 PM

oh! ok...that makes sense now...there's been alot of discussion on it over at MNI. :p alot of ppl think that both harry and ol'voldie are gonna die and some are hoping harry gets killed in book 7:rolleyes: altho heres a thought-Harry is the main character...why owuld JKR kill him off? what'd she say "and then he died" and end the book? just a thought...

RGjunkie

11-15-2003, 11:21 PM

Sorry to just jump in the conversation here. I had to get a new screen name here since it's been a while since I've been to the MI. I used to be gamgee's1mellon. Anyways, nuff about me...

Being a teenager myself, I think it only makes sense that there would be SOME romance. But with the big issues there are already in the world around the kids, I think the LOGICAL thing would be that it isn't the main focus. I think in the right places it makes the story more relatable and the characters seem much more believable, just so long as it doesn't consume the story.

Sorry to just plop that in the middle of a probably completely different subject, Just wanted to put in my 2cents. Thanks!

ChianaWeasley

11-16-2003, 01:33 PM

Frankly I love some fluffy Ron and Hermione, Ginny and Neville, Harry and Luna in my harry potter. I love how J.K. Rowling adds it in bits by bits, and doesn't focus too much on the romantic part of hogwarts.

Flockman The Wise

11-23-2003, 12:43 AM

Who wants non-stop doom and death you ask? You'd be surprised..

Ayla

12-17-2003, 04:34 PM

not you!!? ayla feigns surprise! :eek:

I believe that you should have a good balance between good and evil......heartlessness and smooching etc.........i'll drop my educative pose now (is there even such a word?) well, romance is important! but so is action, but what is a good action without the hero falling in love? in the eyes of a girl now, that is;)

Flockman The Wise

12-17-2003, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by Ayla
not you!!? ayla feigns surprise! :eek:

No, not me. But there are some..

Ayla

12-17-2003, 04:45 PM

indeed:)

so what is your outlook on romance in Harry Potter? C'mon I guess there are a lot of us waiting to hear your heartless answer, luv;) :D

but i'll try to believe that doom is not all that you seek!:p

Flockman The Wise

12-17-2003, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by Ayla
indeed:)

so what is your outlook on romance in Harry Potter? C'mon I guess there are a lot of us waiting to hear your heartless answer, luv;) :D

but i'll try to believe that doom is not all that you seek!:p

Hearless? Nah. Just honest. :D

Ayla

12-17-2003, 05:14 PM

So men's definition of honest is love is unimportent for the survival of the soul? hmmmmm

i've hear it said that love was just created to ensure the survival of the human race. do you believe that?

one the one hand my cynic side believes it without doubt. what use is there in love anyway? it is only a waste of breath and good strength. it does bring more pain and worries than joy and a lot of smooching. all that is but a hunger for belonging,.

Then my more human side says : love is many a splendid thing. love is like oxygen.

and i'm boring myself:D

Lord_Faelon

12-24-2003, 05:03 PM

Well yeh romance is important in the hp books as "love" is supposedly Lord Voldemorts greatest weakness:swoon:

SiriuslyInLove

12-25-2003, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by Lord_Faelon
Well yeh romance is important in the hp books as "love" is supposedly Lord Voldemorts greatest weakness:swoon:

that is true! I'd forgotten about it! it is important! :)

Ayla

12-25-2003, 03:32 PM

yeah, and all the time we saw *love* as in swoony and romantic types of love.

Voldemort sure has got a trouble with it....:D But then again, why wouldnt' he? He's got a white face with funny slits for a nose and red eyes:eek: that does not encourage the feeling of *love* at all!!!!!!!:nose:

and the love between Harry, Ron & Hermione is important too!!! WHat would have become of them if they did not love each other? VOldemort and a lot of other things would have torn them apart.

well, that is just my opinion on something other than *romantic love* ;) ;)

Flockman The Wise

12-27-2003, 02:35 AM

Originally posted by Ayla
So men's definition of honest is love is unimportent for the survival of the soul? hmmmmm

i've hear it said that love was just created to ensure the survival of the human race. do you believe that?

one the one hand my cynic side believes it without doubt. what use is there in love anyway? it is only a waste of breath and good strength. it does bring more pain and worries than joy and a lot of smooching. all that is but a hunger for belonging,.

Then my more human side says : love is many a splendid thing. love is like oxygen.

and i'm boring myself:D

Don't ever call me "men". MY definition of honest is, quite obviously, the truth. And you say "is" like those are all facts or something.

glaelia

12-27-2003, 07:58 AM

she was asking a question, not stating a fact.

ChianaWeasley

12-27-2003, 06:11 PM

Well when you say 'love is like oxygen', and then think about it in terms of whats been written so far in the books, they've gotten along fairly well without it ;) And by that I mean it was going well till Cho had to come along and intrigue Harry:p

Ayla

12-29-2003, 05:20 AM

Right, Flockman, sorry if I "overgeneralised" it. I don't mean that MEN are all the same;)
And, yeah, some of it aren't FACTS, but it should be!!;) :D

And if you differ, give me ... NO... us a GOOD explanation on your views. I am most curios to hear your innermost thoughts on that subject. C'mon. and if I should not call you ''men'' should i call you ''boy'' ??;)

Sorry, I'm not really mean. I'm just trying to pick a fight:rolleyes: :D I'm not very good at it, am I?:p

And, still, Flockman, men IS ignorant of love. Prove me wrong, if you please,

And Chiana, I got that "love is oxygen" from Moulin Rouge:D
and, yeah, they got pretty well on without it, but underneath their friendship-bond lingered ''love''. ;)

And damn, Cho!!!:trout:

glaelia

12-29-2003, 07:31 AM

FLockman the Wise has been banned.

Little Miss

12-29-2003, 07:49 AM

whoa... moving on swiftly!

there has been lots of love in the books so far, just not mushy mushy i love you/i love you too/lets have fun behind the broom shed kind of love. the kind of love JKR has been using in the story is real love, for your friends, your family (or the people that have become your family), and an old man with a white beard who wears skirts. dresses. robes...

that fact alone is why i know the potterverse could never exist in our own. that kind of love isnt given as freely and honestly in our society as it is in theirs. maybe the close bond between a handful of eleven year olds is that kind of love, but by the time most kids reach eleven they're far from innocent (case in point, my three year old niece tells her mother to "shut up you !!!!!" when she's trying to discipline her).

and certainly in our own world the love between the kids and the adults in their lives would be looked down upon and even questioned.

a person can happily live without "i love you *grope*" or "i love you *ring/marrage/kids*" but the love between friends is like oxygen, i know i for one would be less of a person without it.

SiriuslyInLove

12-30-2003, 01:03 AM

Originally posted by glaelia
FLockman the Wise has been banned.

may i ask why? Im just wondering...not trying to start anything!

And Ayla I also Agree with you! ;)

And if you differ, give me ... NO... us a GOOD explanation on your views. I am most curios to hear your innermost thoughts on that subject. C'mon. and if I should not call you ''men'' should i call you ''boy'' ??

:rotfl:

Little Miss

12-30-2003, 08:06 AM

calm down!

:rolleyes:

glaelia

12-30-2003, 12:10 PM

because he's a troll and a troublemaker. And we will keep banning him.

SiriuslyInLove

12-30-2003, 03:44 PM

oh..ok/// :p

ChianaWeasley

12-30-2003, 11:39 PM

on a happy, late at night note ;)

I think my only good argument I'll ever need is, like Paul and john sang;

All you need is love...

SiriuslyInLove

12-31-2003, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by ChianaWeasley
on a happy, late at night note ;)

I think my only good argument I'll ever need is, like Paul and john sang;

All you need is love...

LOL!

good one;)

MarySueMalfoy

01-02-2004, 03:11 AM

I think that romantic love can also be a powerful tool for exposition. Because the stories are all from Harry's POV, we saw very little of the non-Gryffindor life at Hogwarts. Once Harry's friends started dating people from other houses (and Harry's other friends started commenting on it), we finally started to get to know a bit more about the Hufflepuffs and Ravenclaws.

It's always bugged me that we know almost nothing about anyone in Slytherin except how they react when Draco and Friends are up against Harry and Friends. Therefore:

- I would love to have either a Gryffindor or else someone from Hufflepuff or Ravenclaw who's in the DA start dating a Slytherin. We'd learn a lot, both from finally seeing a Slytherin on non-adversarial terms and from seeing how others react. Who's open-minded about it? Who's intolerant?

- I'd love to see Draco and Pansy have a very loud, very virulent, very public breakup argument in the middle of the Great Hall, because a) they'd shout out things which we would not otherwise have discovered, thus giving us a glimpse into what it's actually like in Slytherin when the House isn't presenting a united front against Gryffindor, and b) Draco would then be unattached:D .

ChianaWeasley

01-02-2004, 11:21 AM

Pansy and Draco eh?

I'de quite like to see Crabbe and Millicent, they'de make rather large children wouldn't they ;)

But mixing between the houses would be nice to see as Zad would say,
"Lure of the exotic."

I dont really see many chances for the other three houses to mix with Slytherins, most specifically Gryffindors. But you never know, Rowling could pull a fast one on us. And out of all the characters I can see Ginny dating a misunderstood Slytherin,since she does seem to have a wide variety going for her. But I don't think her brothers would be too pleased to hear it.

But if there were any misunderstood Slytherins, wouldn't they have surfaced by now, and joined the DA?

Ayla

01-02-2004, 02:33 PM

well, I could see a *cross-dating* thing going on in Hogwarts. :) hehehe

Ginny & a Slytherin :rolleyes: a misunderstood one by that!!! LOL

And I doubt if they would surface. They won't want to lose *face* in front of all the other Slythers would they? And I think most of them ARE kinda evil by nature---> not that they can help it tho!!!!:)

Moxie

01-02-2004, 07:30 PM

Keep your eye on Zabini, I say... its ;) gender is the least of the mystery, considering Zabini is the only named Slytherin in Harry's year who wasn't part of Umbridge's Inquisitorial Squad (and hasn't been involved in any Slyth-Gryff skirmishes). Makes me wonder what it's been up to all these years...

ChianaWeasley

01-03-2004, 10:07 PM

Zambini?
Who is this Zambini you speak of?
thinks about this

ah...I remember now.....

Well, aren't most of the Slytherin characters, that will play a part in the storyline, have already of been introduced?

MarySueMalfoy

01-04-2004, 12:38 AM

I wouldn't be too sure. We know Draco and his cronies, but we've only been introduced by name to a fraction of the students at Hogwarts, and since Harry's mob hardly ever socialize with Slytherins, they wouldn't know many.

As for why they didn't join the DA, the DA is still largely secret, and as far as we know no Slytherins were approached to join. Pity, really; there are almost certainly some Slytherins out there who would make great DA members. Cunning, resourcefulness, a certain latitude toward the rules...these can be useful traits to a covert defense association. Also, being housemates of the Death-Eater-junior types gives them ample opportunity for espionage. Pity it'll be so difficult to build trust.

Bellatrix_Lestrange

01-04-2004, 09:54 PM

Shakespeare wasn't the first to pick up on it; when too much entrenched feuding has made reconciliation virtually impossible, look to a couple of kids with curious minds, impetuous wills and raging hormones.

The romance may not work out, but at least you'll shake up the status quo.

ChianaWeasley

01-06-2004, 09:50 PM

Are you referring to Romeo & Juliet? ;)

Never liked that story, everything is based on physical attraction.

And, I feel, that in the series, other then Fleur, that most of the relationships formed are not based on physical attraction.

Melpomene

01-08-2004, 09:23 PM

Originally posted by ChianaWeasley
Are you referring to Romeo & Juliet? ;)

Never liked that story, everything is based on physical attraction.

And, I feel, that in the series, other then Fleur, that most of the relationships formed are not based on physical attraction.

I also dislike the 'love-at-first-sight' ploy; it seems romantic, but is the antithesis of what real love is about, IMO.

On the other hand, attraction to someone from the 'other side' can be based on more than good looks. We generally watch our enemies closely. In the course of doing so, we may see things that don't match our expectations.