Occlumency books 6 and harry

[Lord Schaudt]

Okie Dokey so Voldemort knows that he can reach Harry anytime anyplace, now Harry sucks at Occlumency, can't control his emotions and him and snape get along like cats in a sack.

So does JK drop the occlumency thing altogether?

Have Dumbledore Teach him?

Have the next DaDA teacher teach him(moody again maybe???)

or unknown

and snape round 2
??
any thoughts?

[Kristin]

I think she's going to drop it (at least mostly, though she'll probably reference it). Because Dumbledore said even though it was a mistake to have Snape try to teach Harry, it didn't matter that Harry hadn't learned occlumency because it was his heart that saved him.

[Lord Schaudt]

But still, Voldie could sit there and not try and take him over but make him fell bad 24/7...

And then again Dumbldore could use Harry as a weapon adn have Harry Possses Voldie, which i doubt would happen but it would make for a interesting book.

[Elwen]

Well, I am going for a long shot here.

Harry has the theory of it, and he is gifted at these sorts of things, as far as we can tell. Perhaps he sees himself that occlumency and legillimency is important. It will now be easier for him to clear his mind - perhaps he even suffers more attempts at attack by V. Even if his heart can sell him even the physical pain in his nscar should be an incentive.

I wonder whether thbis could not become something the DA tackles as an aim - both occulmency and legillimency. Perhaps behind Dumbledore's back - because what teacher wants a legillimens or three in his classroom?


I think that would be an interesting way of developing the theme, and the DA.


Elwen

[Lord Schaudt]

Elwen your brillant! :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy



I think thats absolutley birllant the only thing i disagree with is the Legilmens in the classroom, i think it requires the actual use of the spell, at least to delve someones mind, becuase Dumbledore and Snape both use it when they want to delve someones mind


I would love to see harry vs say Mariretia (Chos friend) in Legilimens practice....

question of the day : Could you force someone to relive one of YOUR memories? cuz if you can then harry could use Crucio on someone like Marietia without it being easy to just use Priori Incantatum, ok i know thats evil but Malfoy using it on some firstyear maybe??

[Elwen]

LS - there seem to be a few instances in the earlier book that now seem like Lupin and Sirius are reading at least some of Harry's thoughts. So it seems that it is possible, at least to a certain extent, to do this without a spell, if you are good at it. :)

And thanks for the compliments.

Elwen

[Tiger Louie]

I suspect that now that Harry actually understands why it was important for him to learn Occlumency, and has confirmation of his suspicion that the skill of reading minds exists, he's going to be all for learning!

I think that Dumbledore will have to teach him himself, though, as I think it might be easier to get blood out of a stone than have Snape and Harry get together over this, more because of Snape than Harry.

Tiger

[Lord Schaudt]

Your welcome


Interesting point, you can say a spell softly(so no one else can hear it) and its just not as effective (Hermione getting attacked in OoPT)

AND

You can do spells without your wand, (harry dropping it and Lumos working becuase hes close) + The binding people with the snap of a finger (Quirrel in book one)

so could a reallly really powerful wizard like Dumbldore or Voldemort have his wand in his pocket (not his back one of course:)) and do the spell uder his breath and still have the effect. higly Likely

[Seriphus]

Well we know from the first book that Dumbledore can make himself invisible without an invisibility cloak, who knows what other things he can do without using the kind of tools other wizards need.

And countless times throughout the books, Harry has thought that Snape and Dumbledore have been reading his mind. I don't think you need a wand, I think what Snape does to Harry with the legilimens spell is different to if he was just trying to work out if Harry was lying to him; a more powerful way to do legilimency.

I think occlumency and legilimency will have some importance in the next books (it's a great way for Harry to find out more information about the past).
Sirius' death must have taught him the importance of him learning occlumency and it's possibly less important for him to master it now because he's already suffering greatly from the effect of Voldemort using legilimency on him - he won't allow himself to be tricked so easily a second time.
Elwen, I like your idea of incorporating it into the DA. :)

[Lord Schaudt]

That woulde suck so bad as a teacher, 30 kids sitting there reading your EMOTIONS...


I mean snape:
Potter: what is this potion supposed to do?
Snape: blah blah blah dumbass mr. potter
(all the DA members) see pure hatred in his mind

well i know he is a superb occlumens but you really think he would bother with it during lessons?

[Kristin]

Originally posted by Elwen
seem like Lupin and Sirius are reading at least some of Harry's thoughts.

IMO, they're just being very insightful and intuitive. And in a lot of cases, I think it's because they were like Harry once.

I interpret legilimency to be a very violating thing. Therefore, I don't think most wizards would use it so freely. Of course, Voldemort and other unscrupulous wizards abuse the power. But I would think it's the sort of thing you wouldn't do to someone without their permission.

I also read it as being something that can't be done without the second party's knowledge. I don't think Lupin could sneak into Harry's thoughts completely unnoticed while Harry wonders "How did he know what I was thinking?"

[Elwen]

I certainly agree with you on legillimency being a violation.... but I am not sure whether it cannot be subtle. Voldemort certainly seems to have been able to be very subtle about it. And Harry knew V's mind (to an extent) without V noticing (akthough that could, of course be different).


I am not sure about this, it is just a hunch, but I think that it could be subtle. But I am worried about some people who are supposed to be on the good side apparently using it on Harry (so I'd be relieved if that wasn't it).

Perhaps if you are very good at it you just get into the habit - perhaps it becomes like a sixth sense and you can't fail to percieve someone else's emotions, just as you can't fail to see their face when you talk to them.

In any case, i don't think it would be easy to actually read someone's exact thoughts (Snape seems to make that clear) that easily. Perhaps the subtle form of it is a bit like what Harry experienced with V - you perceive emotions, rather than actual thoughts. That would be enough for all the instances earlier on where someone managed to read Harry's mind.


What Snape seems to be doing with Harry is really a rather violent way of intruding into another person's mind :eek:

Hey, I am just guessing - we don#t have much to go on, of course! :D

Elwen

[Lord Schaudt]

I think you can read emotions without the spell, but i have decided that using the spell just makes it easier