The nit pickers thread (MAJOR SPOILER WARNINGS)

[amrael]

I was cheerfully nit picking at some (for me) doubtful plot devices in PoA in another thread and I forgot to put the spoiler warning. So I've decided to start a spoiling thread. :)

First of all, I enjoy the Harry Potter series very much, so this is not about bashing but about talking about those little things that might be called inconsistencies.


So I'll drop the first brick: Scabbers in the Shack. Isn't it a bit hard to swallow that Scabbers/Pettigrew decided to remain with Ron once he went to Hogwarts? Wasn't it running far far to big a risk? Maybe the first two years weren't too dangerous, but with Lupin around, I'd have ran away very very fast at the beginning of the term. If Sirius Black was free, it was obvious that he would try to find Harry, so I'd got as far away from him as I could...

Your opinions in the subject?

[Kristin]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think you have to worry about spoilers and warning people. Probably anybody posting in here has read the books -- or else they post threads about reading the books for the first time. And I don't think they post spoiler warnings in the LOTR Lit forum.

Anyhow... on to the topic. :)

I hadn't thought of that before. You're probably right. Of course, he did run away later on after faking his death. But it doesn't make sense why he stayed as long as he did. I guess he stuck around for the same reason he joined the Weasleys in the first place: to hear news.

[amrael]

Maybe you're right Kristin, but as I saw at least a poster that was hunting for CoS, I wanted to play safe. :)

[Monkfish]

I he could turn himself into any animal, why didn`t he choose an owl?

He could then have read everyone else`s letters!

[amrael]

As far as I have read, an animagus has only one form. Peter was a rat, and that was all he could transform into.

[Monkfish]

"They couldn`t keep me company as humans, so they kept me company as animals," said Lupin. "A werewolf is only a danger to people. They sneaked out of the castle every month under James`s invisibility cloak."

I can`t imagine a rat keeping up with a wolf.

(or for that matter lasting very long if Sirius was a bit hungry!):D

[amrael]

Two quotes from PoA:


'Each could turn into A different animal at will'

'there's a register showing what animal they become, and their markings and things'

If animagi could become any animal, the register would be useless, wouldn't it?


I take that either Peter or Sirius carried Wormtail when they were prowling the woods...

[Moxie]

Originally posted by amrael
Isn't it a bit hard to swallow that Scabbers/Pettigrew decided to remain with Ron once he went to Hogwarts? Wasn't it running far far to big a risk? ...with Lupin around, I'd have ran away very very fast at the beginning of the term.

'Scabbers' did try to run away (faking his death at Crookshanks' teeth first), just not fast enough. Peter was likely using Hagrid's hut as a convenient rest stop on the way out (obviously not knowing Hagrid's is no place to find a decent meal ;)). As for why Peter didn't start running as soon as Lupin showed up, he was living comfortably as Ron's rat - Peter seems to want nothing more than a safe, comfortable existence, and as Lupin would have no reason to enter Gryffindor's common room or dormitories Scabbers could remain safely hidden in those areas, or so Peter might have thought until Crookshanks not only started hunting him again but also helped Sirius get into the Tower.

[amrael]

Maybe yes, but I'm still not too sure. The connection between Lupin and Harry was too strong, and I still think it was far too risky. And Pettigrew knew Hagrid well, so I'm afraid he wouldn't go anywhere near his hut in rat form. You never know how many dragons, skrewts or whatever are going to be around quite hungry.

So: second Scabbers nit-pick: Why did he NEVER show up in the Marauder's map? Because he was an animagus?

[Colli]

I have a lot of issues with the Marauder's map, too.

If it's a single sheet... how does it show the different floors/staircases/passageways? A sheet of paper isn't big enough, and Hogwarts is too big for all those different levels to fit on it.

Why weren't there two sets of Harrys and Hermiones when they used the time turner, when Lupin looked at it?


There are so many issues with magic and time travel, no wonder there aren't more good fantasy books.

:D amrael, are you going to get your old avatar back? I miss Gandalf. :)

[amrael]

Wait till I get my post count to 50...

:D

I hadn't thought about the many levels on Hogwarts. Good one, Colli. :)

[Fleur]

Hey, you can have an avatar after one post.

Scabbers was trying to run away, wasn't he? being all wierd and stuff. Chrookshanks made it impossible for him to. HE would have got eaten if he tried.

As for two Harrys/Hermiones there probably were, but after all there are supposedly over a thousand people at Hogwarts so Maybe Lupin and Sirius wouldn't notice.

An old one, but it demands attention none the less: Yeah right there are over 1000 people at Hogwarts as JK claims. Using the number of peole in Harry's house and year as an average (10, five boys five girls although we hear nothing of oher girls in the year) That makes 40 students per yer. 40 times 7 equals 280.

pfnaar.

[amrael]

Have you taken into account the House Elves? There must be hundreds of them...

[one.elven.girl]

I too wondered about the levels of Hogwarts and the marauders map. And if there were 1000 people at Hogwarts, how would you ever find anybody?

[Pilgrim Grey]

If the Marauder's Map was in scale (and if it wasn't it'd be pointless) then the people would be way too tiny to be seen, if the castle is more than say, the size of a house.

[ElfTBD]

Originally posted by amrael
If animagi could become any animal, the register would be useless, wouldn't it?
I take that either Peter or Sirius carried Wormtail when they were prowling the woods...

No, i think they can only turn in to one specific animal (ie: McGonagall only changes into a cat, Rita Skeeter only turns into a beetle...)

I've always wondered about Scabbers/Peter too...I mean, why specifically the Weasly's? He could have stayed with any family he wanted. He *was* a rat after all. He could have snuck in anywhere any house. If I remember correctly, Peter doesn't really explain why he stayed with the Weasly's...(then again, that could be a plot point for a future book *shrug*)

And maybe the maurauder's map, at least for the inside, shows you who's on the floor you're on, or maybe it's 3-d? I'll be curious how they show the map in the movie....

[Monkfish]

I`m still not convinced they could only turn into one animal.........

Krum almost managed to turn himself into a shark, and that was only after a couple of months research...........

[ElfTBD]

Originally posted by Monkfish
I`m still not convinced they could only turn into one animal.........

Krum almost managed to turn himself into a shark, and that was only after a couple of months research...........

I thought it was explained as an "incomplete transfiguration"...I thought being an animagi meant you performed a spell on yourself that was permanent where transfiguration was temporary...the only reason I think this is because Sirius and Peter could change into their respective animals at will, no wands required...and if I remember correctly, it took them quite a long time to complete the process....

*sigh* I suppose I'll just have to read PoA again...it'll be a hardship, but I think I can do it....*end sarcasm*:LOL:

[Fleur]

You DEFINITELY can only change into one animal if you chose to become an animagus. I would look up a quote to prove this, but I really can't be bothered. But I know it to be true.


And also, Transfiguration is a totally different thing. You can be transfigured or transfigure yourself into anything you want to.

[Colli]

Hence Krum trying to turn himself into a shark. :)

I agree, Fleur.

[Monkfish]

It`s just the thought of Sirius carrying a rat around piggyback.........:D

[amrael]

No need to have Pettigrew ride bareback. I'm sure Sirius would agree to have a small saddle and very, very short stirrups on his back...


:p

[Fleur]

Lol. Rats can run pretty fast, you know. I have one. Pretty darn fast. ;)

[Monkfish]

Originally posted by amrael
No need to have Pettigrew ride bareback. I'm sure Sirius would agree to have a small saddle and very, very short stirrups on his back...
:rotfl:

[Seriphus]

OK, I have a nitpick. In PoA when Harry, Ron and Hermione went in the shreiking shack it was already dark outside:
The very last rays of the setting sun were casting a bloody light over the long-shadowed grounds.
By the time they reached open ground, darkness was settling like a spell around them.

So how did Lupin manage to get to the shack and hang around talking for all that time without ever transforming?

[Pilgrim Grey]

Maybe the moonlight has to actually touch you to become a wolf? I dunno how those things are supposed to work...

[amrael]

But then Lupin wouldn't have to worry. He just would stay indoors and he wouldn't transform.

Seriphus, I will have to think about that one...

[ElfTBD]

maybe the moon hadn't risen yet?

[Seriphus]

maybe the moon hadn't risen yet?

The bit before he transforms reads

A cloud shifted. There were suddenly dim shadows on the ground. Their party was bathed in moonlight.

which suggests that it had risen already and he turned into a werewolf because the clouds no longer hid it. But if all he had to do was avoid direct moonlight then, as amrael said, all he would have to do would be to stay indoors.

[Fleur]

That is a good point, and one that I have thought about before. Maybe it only happens when it is at a certain point in the sky

[Colli]

That's bothered me before, too. (about Lupin)

Main Entry: full moon: the moon with its whole apparent disk illuminated

Would the moon only reach a true full state at a certain point in the night? And if so, why would Lupin be out of commission for several days??

[ElfTBD]

Originally posted by Colli
That's bothered me before, too. (about Lupin)
Would the moon only reach a true full state at a certain point in the night? And if so, why would Lupin be out of commission for several days??

well, acctually...there's a time point where the moon is at it's fullest (yes, a specific time!) before that time it's technically waxing and after that time it's technically waning...however, the moon *looks* full for 3 days (the day before the actual full moon, the day of full moon, and the day after) before and after those days it's quite obvious whether it's waxing or waning...

dang...now this is bothering me too....

or maybe, at the end of PoA he has enough potion in him to last through the shack scene, but it wears off by the time they get out?

[amrael]

If so ElfTBD I can only say


bloody good timing!

:p :D

[ElfTBD]

Originally posted by amrael
If so ElfTBD I can only say


bloody good timing!

:p :D

:rotfl:

yup....now that I think of it, didn't someone (maybe Hermione? or snape?) mention something at the end (or in the shack) about him not taking his potion?

[amrael]

Yes. One of the better ironies of the shack scene is that Snape finds out that something fishy is going on when he, after realizing that Lupin has forgotten to take the last dose of the potion, goes into his office to bring it him and finds the Marauder's Map on top of Lupin's desk.

I like Lupin a great deal, but wasn't it a bit careless of him?

[ElfTBD]

Originally posted by amrael
Yes. One of the better ironies of the shack scene is that Snape finds out that something fishy is going on when he, after realizing that Lupin has forgotten to take the last dose of the potion, goes into his office to bring it him and finds the Marauder's Map on top of Lupin's desk.

I like Lupin a great deal, but wasn't it a bit careless of him?

well, I think he was a little preoccupied with the whole Sirius and Peter situation...man, I need to read PoA again...;)

[Colli]

Originally posted by ElfTBD
man, I need to read PoA again...;)

Sounds like a good plan to me. :) Now if only I had time.

[Monkfish]

PEEKABOO!


(sorry........just trying it out!) :D

[Seriphus]

I did think about the potion wearing off, but if he'd taken it he'd still be a wolf, just not a dangerous one.

Maybe the moon being at it's true full state causes the transformation and then the transformation lasts a while even though the moon has begun to wane?

[ElfTBD]

Originally posted by Seriphus
I did think about the potion wearing off, but if he'd taken it he'd still be a wolf, just not a dangerous one.

Maybe the moon being at it's true full state causes the transformation and then the transformation lasts a while even though the moon has begun to wane?

hmmmm.....that's a thought.....

[amrael]

Posted by Colli

:D amrael, are you going to get your old avatar back? I miss Gandalf.


You see? After all, I needed to get the post count up to 50, as the wise changed that rule.

It is not exactly, the same, though. I wanted The White now. :D

[ElfTBD]

'k...like the good little book geek I am, I re-read PoA...2 things:

1. The Lupin thing still bothers me...I think maybe it's just a glitch in the story kind of thing...

2. Dumbledore says that the prediction Prof. Trelawny gives Harry is her second one. It makes me wonder, what was her first and will it come up in another book?

:D now that I've given you stuff to chew on, I'm going to go re-read GoF...:nose:

[BloodFire's Mum]

My guess is that Prof Trelawny's other REAL prediction/premonition either had to do with Harrys birth or with his parents death.

[Seriphus]

I thought her first may have been Voldemort being defeated.

Something about how he would be defeated by one of the Potter line, which lead to him wanting to kill James and Harry when he found out about it. When he found out he told the deatheaters, Snape told Dumbledore, the Potters went into hiding and so on.

Serphy

[Pilgrim Grey]

reading through the Philosopher's Stone, I found a bunch of mistakes (I wasn't looking for them... honest!)

When Flitwick is getting the kids to practice the levitating charm (Wingardium Leviosa), he reminds them to make sure that they say 'F' not 'S', but there's no 'F' in Wingardium Leviosa!

For some reason, there are three brooms sitting in the room with the flying keys, when there should've been only one at the most...

On the chessboard, Ron tells Harry to be a bishop and for Hermione to become the castle next to him, but castle's and bishop's aren't next to each other at the start of a chess game.

And last one, Harry has to move sideways three spaces on the chessboard to checkmate the king, but bishop's can't move sideways, only diagonally!

Phew!

[Monkfish]

The wizard Baruffio story might be just an example of not saying the words properly when doing a spell, not necessarily this spell.

If someone went through to the next room and took the broom with them then nobody would be able to follow unless there was more than one broom handy.

Next to him as in `on his side` of the king.

You can move three spaces diagonally to the left of forward.

[Smeagol]

Not really a nit-pick, but at the end of GoF when Harry is talking to Dumbledore about what happened, Harry mentions something about Voldemort taking blood from him and the story states that Dumbledore had a gleam of triumph in his eye or something like that...what could that mean?

[Fleur]

Yeah he meant like, which side, right?

as for the 'look of triumph' that one has been pondered over. a glimpse of something to come.... but what? One suggestion is because he used harrys blood now he is mortal and can be killed. But maybe not....

[Peregrinning Took]

Dumbledore seems pretty on-top of everything, so he might have had a suspicion that Voldy would try to come back using the Bone of the Father, Flesh of the Servant, Blood of the Enemy charm, and he did something to Harry's blood.

No idea what that could be, though.

It's sad that I could rattle off the ingredients of the charm without thinking. :D

[Lord Schaudt]

Nah i think that it may have to do with something like this

he used harry's blood, which will further strengthen the already strong bond between them, Voldie gave harry some skills, and won him protection and fame, now he has a servant that is bound to harry for saving his life. Plus now harrys blood is in him, not saying he will like harry or antyhing but maybe if he tires to hurt harry he wont be able to directly attack him??

[ChianaWeasley]

I think it may be quite the opposite Schaudt, it may make Harry more vunerable to 'You-Know-Who's reborn power. He has a bit of Harry in him now, which could never lead to a good thing for Harry.

[Monkfish]

Why can`t Lupin and Snape see the other Harry and Hermoine hiding in the trees with Buckbeak on the marauders map in POA?:confused:

[lizz]

Lupin was folowing the first pair (trio actually) and if he was concentrating only on them maybe he was oblivious to everything else on that map. Or the map is how the movie pictured it then its easier to explain. As for Snape seeing the name Sirius Black is enough not to notice anything else :D although if he saw them in the Shrieking Shack or even Sirius dragging Ron he should have seen Pettigrew too.

[Monkfish]

I thought the map only showed the tunnel underneath the whomping willow heading out of the grounds towards Hogsmeade and not as far as the shrieking shack........

[lizz]

so Snape just saw Lupin hurrying there and being already distrustful he followed and was convinced Lupin hat helped sirius when he saw them together. Ok, that fits :)

[Telchar II]

I also get the feeling that Hogwarts is known to be a fairly safe place. The anti-Apparition aura, for example, makes it more difficult to be caught by surprise there. My guess is that Dumbledore wants Trelawney at Hogwarts in order to keep her safe and keep her prophecies (though few and far between) from the dark side. Snape too might be at Hogwarts in part for self-protection. If Voldy knows that Snape has "left him forever," then it's possible that some of the Death Eaters know too. I suspect that Snape would not survive long away from Hogwarts.

Pettigrew might have hooked up with the Weasleys on the theory that as he was handed down from generation to generation of young 'uns, he would stand a good chance of spending most of the next 20 years at Hogwarts undercover. And safe.

[lizz]

there are many references about snape being quite appreciated (not completly the right word, but it will do for the moment) by Malfoy who seems to be quite an important DE, , so I dont think Snape has to stay at Hogwarts for his safety from the DE unless of course this is a trick by Malfoy. snape is still a mystery but his need of staying at Hogwarts for safety might still come.

Pettigrew might have wanted safety at Hogwarts, sirius might have been right about him just bidding his time, proably its a mixture of both.

[ChianaWeasley]

But Sirius will have to stay at hogwarts, because he is part of the OoTP, and part of his role is to keep an eye open at the school. and oddly enough, to protect the children...not very snape like ;)

And we know Snape is willing to risk his life for the cause against 'You-know-Who', so he will most likely stay.