Dragon of Bad Faith

[Esgaroth]

Greetings all...I have wandered here at the direction of a fellow Council of Elrond Playgrouper who is also a fan of Harry Potter. Since there is a lull before the storm of both movies coming out, I thought I would diversify my fandom (retrograde as it is) to interesting things found in the four books of Harry Potter.

Only thing is, I think am now fascinated by one of the 'lesser' characters...

Well, lesser would be rather misleading wouldn't it, since Draco Malfoy is hardly a passer-by in Harry's world at Hogwarts.

But as anyone in the Pippin's Playgroup thread will tell you, I am one of those that tends to go for the characters that 'sneak' up in an author's work.

And I have a hope/hunch that Draco Malfoy is one of those.

I could be wrong. I could even be influenced by some rather...shall we say? INTERESTING fanfiction that I have been reading...but in checking over some of Rowlings excerpts, the intrigue is starting to build for me.

I cannot get into it at this particular hour of the day, as I am SWAMPED with the normal workload of family and 'stuff'...but I have noted that there is not a thread here to discuss 'possibilities.'

so without further ado, *I* Esgaroth would like to toss a pebble down the well of Harry Potter and discuss Draco Malfoy as a 'dark horse' character, if I may so use the term.

I will try to come back and offer my thoughts when I have a bit more time, tonight or tomorrow.

Best,
Esgaroth

[Colli]

:clap:

I can't wait!

There have been a few minor discussions (at least partway serious) about Draco elsewhere, but nothing like this. :)

[Gin Brandybuck]

Hi Rothy! Colli!

First, I have to mention that my view too is tainted by loverly fanfic, and that I absolutely love Draco because of it. (Thank you Cassie and Penpusher and Arabella and Zsenya and absolutely everyone Sugarquill ) I think that Draco will end up being good. I hope that he ends up being good. Many others seem to agree, so we can all cross our fingers. But, I believe that he'll end up defeating his dad, or being part of the force, and that there will be a chapter or two on the conflict of good vs. being evil for Draco. Where his dad confronts him on his intentions, and orders him to harm dear Harry, and Draco defies him...or something to that effect. Anyone agree?

[Seriphus]

Draco really is hard to place. Obviously he's Harry's nemesis and through Harry's eyes there's one very obvious conclusion of how he will end up.

I don't read fanfiction so any ideas I have about him come from what JKR has written. I tend to focus on lesser characters too. In HP I have a fascination with the entire Slytherin house- mostly my favourite character Snape- and from that Draco.
Draco and Snape seem to have something very similar about them. They were/are the rivals of Harry and James Potter, respectively and stand out somewhat from the rest of the Slytherins.

Draco comes across very differently from his friends, Crabbe and Goyle. While they are thick, clumsy and don't think for themselves he is intelligent, cunning and resourceful. He uses his pureblood status to his advantage and has the obligatory interest in the dark arts. However his intelligence suggests that he won't go blindly into the world of the Deatheaters even if he does follow his father.
We know that something happened to Snape that made him reflect on what he was doing. I could see the same thing happening to Draco. JKR has aid that we won't see Draco and Harry working alongside fighting evil, but then I could never see Draco being the out and out 'good guy'. If he plays a part in defeating Voldemort it will be subtle and secretive; maybe a spy like Snape or some other way.

One thing that could help change his path in life is his relationship with his father. We've seen that Lucius is an authorative figure who probably exercises power over his son as a release from the power that his master exercises on him. If Draco begins to resent his father he may reconsider his position in the battle between good and evil.

Serphy

[Esgaroth]

HEY GUYS!!! Thanks for jumping in! Y'all have said exactly what I have been thinking, which is why I wanted to start the thread.

I have to confess that Snape first got my attention, but didn't think much of Draco until reading some of the fanfic...and I agree totally now, Gin...Rothy whispers:I think I have a thing for the character now!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Hey, I'm a sucker for blondes...tall, English blondes...(don't let me go there...)...what can I say???? :D :D

Many others seem to agree, so we can all cross our fingers. But, I believe that he'll end up defeating his dad, or being part of the force, and that there will be a chapter or two on the conflict of good vs. being evil for Draco. Where his dad confronts him on his intentions, and orders him to harm dear Harry, and Draco defies him...or something to that effect. Anyone agree?

I DO!! I am hoping (probably against all that has been indicated) that he does at least reject Voldemort! So far, though, in reviewing all the little bits and parts that Rowlings has put into the novels about Draco, he doesnt reveal too many redeeming qualities. :rolleyes: Well, except for one...in GOF...but I'll get to that in a minute.

Serphy said:
Draco really is hard to place. Obviously he's Harry's nemesis and through Harry's eyes there's one very obvious conclusion of how he will end up.

RIGHT!! I will be EXTREMELY disappointed in Rowling's abilities as a writer if she does NOT allow Draco to develope more. Until the end of Pris of Azk. and the first part of GoF, he seems to be used as just another plot ploy to annoy the dickens out of Harry, Ron, and Hermione. I say SEEMS to be...I think there is probably more to it than that.

Draco comes across very differently from his friends, Crabbe and Goyle. While they are thick, clumsy and don't think for themselves he is intelligent, cunning and resourceful. He uses his pureblood status to his advantage and has the obligatory interest in the dark arts. However his intelligence suggests that he won't go blindly into the world of the Deatheaters even if he does follow his father.

Oh you are dead on, Serphy! That's why I would like to take the risk of asking if it seems a tad trite to constantly use him to beat everyone up about the racism of Muggles vs 'pureblood'??? And there has to be more to Draco than just constant seething about the fact that there are Muggles around. He seems too intelligent to be so obsessed by it. Perhaps I will be proven wrong. Surely there has to be a point where one of the enemies, be it Snape or Draco or anyone else for that matter, who says 'I don't have to like Muggles, but I'm not going to go around killing them, either.'

I guess I want Draco to be that kind of character (I think Snape has probably reached that point??? Right?) Maybe our dear Snape is taking him into hand for that.

I hope!

Sidebar: you know the character who truely worries/scares me, aside from Voldemort laying his hands on Harry again (I havent been this scared for the welfar of a character since I read Frodo in LOTR!!)??? Cornelius Fudge. I mean, what is scarier in dealing with an enemy than someone who denies that the evil exists???? Cause you have no idea WHAT they are going to do.

...but I digress.

Gin, oh HAVENT THERE BEEN some GOOD Draco stories???!!!! You will have to point me to the ones you like. So far there have only been a handful on FanFiction.net that I thought genuinely insightful and well written. Show me more, please!!!!

As much as I love our DSC, :swoon: I have been 'needing' some fic of a darker character...Frodo breaks my heart, and I guess I am still thirteen in that matter and mad at him for leaving Pippin behind! :eek: :(

We know that something happened to Snape that made him reflect on what he was doing. I could see the same thing happening to Draco. JKR has aid that we won't see Draco and Harry working alongside fighting evil, but then I could never see Draco being the out and out 'good guy'. If he plays a part in defeating Voldemort it will be subtle and secretive; maybe a spy like Snape or some other way.

Which leads me to this: Up to this moment, Draco and his cohorts appear simply to have been a thorn in everyones' side:


From JK Rowling, Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban

"S'no good, Ron," said Hagrid sadly as they reached the castle steps. "That Committee's in Lucius Malfoy's pocket. I'm jus' gonna make sure the rest o' Beaky's time is the happiest he's ever had. I owe him that..."

Hagrid turned around and hurried back toward his cabin, his face buried in his handkerchief.

"Look at him blubber!"

Malfoy, Crabbe, and Goyle had been standing just inside the castle doors, listening.

"Have you ever seen anything quite as pathetic?" said Malfoy. "And he's supposed to be our teacher!"

Harry and Ron both made furious moves toward Malfoy, but Hermione got there first - SMACK!

She had slapped Malfoy across the face with all the strength she could muster. Malfoy staggered. Harry, Ron, Crabbe, and Goyle stood flabbergasted as Hermione raised her hand again.

"Don't you dare call Hagrid pathetic, you foul - you evil - "

"Hermione!" said Ron weakly, and he tried to grab her hand as she swung it back.

"Get off, Ron!"

Hermione pulled out her wand. Malfoy stepped backward. Crabbe and Goyle looked at him for instructions, thoroughly bewildered.

"C'mon," Malfoy muttered, and in a moment, all three of them had disappeared into the passageway to the dungeons.

So...he spends most of his time trying to find ways of intimidating the Boy Who Lived, the one who survived the Monster Voldemort, with very powerful talents of his own, but is totally taken aback and retreats without a further whimper from a Muggle girl who slaps him????????????????????

And would I be waaaaay off base if I said that I think this might be a defining moment ie turning point for Malfoy?

HMMMMMMMMMM!!!! VEEEEEEEERY interesting, indeed!!!!

Oh, and this:


From JK Rowling, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire
Harry, Ron, and Hermione turned sharply. Draco Malfoy was standing alone nearby, leaning against a tree, looking utterly relaxed. His arms folded, he seemd to have been watching the scene at the campsite through a gap in the trees.

Ron told Malfoy to do something that Harry knew he would never have dared say in front of Mrs. Weasley.

"Language, Weasley," said Malfoy, his pale eyes glittering. "Hadn't you better be hurrying along, now? You wouldn't like her spotted, would you?"

He nodded at Hermione, and at the same moment, a blast like a bomb sounded from the campsite, and a flash of green light momentarily lit the trees around them.

"What's that supposed to mean?" said Hermione, defiantly.

"Granger, they're after Muggles," said Malfoy. "D'you want to be showing off your knickers in midair? Because if you do, hang around...they're moving this way, and it would give us all a laugh."

Now...

Am I wrong to think that Draco, if we are to follow his earlier manifestations as Muggle-hater, that he would have had NO HESITATION in pointing out Hermione to the Dark Eaters on their way???????? Or that he would not have wasted his time standing there, but leading at least one of them in a charge after Harry, Ron, and Hermione???????????


From JKRowling, The Prisoner of Azkaban

"What? Oh no!" Hermione squeaked. "I forgot to go to Charms!"

"But how could you forget?" said Harry. "You were with us till we were right outside the classroom!"

"I don't believe it!" Hermione wailed. "Was Professor Flitwick angry? Oh, it was Malfoy, I was thinking about him and I lost track of things!"

Uh HUH...Hermione THINKING about Malfoy...knowing Hermione, and knowing what happens when she THINKS...do you not agree this is a VERY BAD SIGN for Malfoy?????

I wonders....

Edit: Just out of curiosity, Rowlings is always refering to Malfoy's dialect as having a drawl. Since I come from Texas, the word itself has a few connotations, all of them Southern USA in flavor. As I am completely unfamiliary with the various dialects of England, what dialect of the United Kingdom would have a drawl? What part of England would the Malfoy's be from? I don't think I have ever picked up on that information...unless she has never specified....

[Annundriel]

Hi Rothy, Colli, Serphy, Gin! I knew it was only time until I ventured over the HP discussion. Who knew it would be Draco that did it? (Now I've got a bit of a crush on him too . . . Oh dear. Silly fanfic.)

I would like to take this opportunity to point out Gin's location . . . She's been snogging Draco in his wardrobe for the last, oh, two weeks. (Gin- Aren't you glad I made you read that story??)

Also, I basically agree with everything said so far. Nothing really new to add, except about those excerpts. :eek: I think it's time to re-read, maybe focusing on Draco this time instead of . . . the others. I remember those excerpts, but I didn't remember Draco's reaction in them. Food for thought.

To me, it seems like Draco only does harm so far as to make himself seem/feel better. He's always struck me as being a bit jealous of Harry. His father seems like a really hard man to please and being a v. demanding father. If Draco's home life is filled with expectations and failed attempts to please his father, wouldn't he be jealous of the ease in which Harry wins people over?

Anyway, I'm hoping Rowling has something interesting planned for Draco. *crosses fingers* Some of her other characters that have started of "bad" before have turned out to have many sides. And one of the messages I always get from the books is that a person doesn't have to be nice in order to be good.

[Esgaroth]

Hello Annie!! Thanks for joining us!

I am glad I am not the only one who is fostering a slow burn for this character!! :eek: :eek:

I put up those segments as a starting point, but i am new to this forum in general, and I am quite sure that all of this has been pointed out/discussed before. Have also lurked in the Snape thread. I think the bat angle for Snape is really a neat theory...and I have to wonder if Snape's leniency towards Malfoy is to cultivate that same path etc. (or whatever)

I dunno. JKR has been a bit harder to follow because most of the reports/news/interviews I have run across are horribly outdated...and since a majority of the fan sites have been shut down, it is difficult to find some that are worthy of repeated viewing. If y'all know of any, pm me...would love to explore...

Also heard that JKR is pregnant....you'd never believe where I got that piece of information!

[Seriphus]

Wow Rothy that’s a load of great thoughts and quotes you’ve come up with.

And there has to be more to Draco than just constant seething about the fact that there are Muggles around. He seems too intelligent to be so obsessed by it.

I find it weird as well that he has these grievances with muggles and muggleborns, but still directs most of his dislike towards Harry, who is as far as we know, almost as pureblood as Draco himself.

I think you may be on to something with the relationship between him and Hermione. He does seem to take notice of her and boys often tease someone they actually like. Maybe he has a respect for her, but doesn’t want to admit it because of how he’s been brought up and what his friends will think. If he has some attachment to Hermione then there’s are great reason for him to reconsidered aiding Voldemort.

Just out of curiosity, Rowlings is always refering to Malfoy's dialect as having a drawl. Since I come from Texas, the word itself has a few connotations, all of them Southern USA in flavor. As I am completely unfamiliary with the various dialects of England, what dialect of the United Kingdom would have a drawl? What part of England would the Malfoy's be from? I don't think I have ever picked up on that information...unless she has never specified....

There’s not really an accent in Britain that is refered to as being a drawl that I’m aware of. There’s certainly none similar to the accents of Southern USA. I would guess that the drawl refers to the sentiment of what he’s saying rather than his accent. I’ll give it a bit of thought, though. I may have overlooked an accent.


Serphy

[Esgaroth]

Have just read somewhere that JKR said in an interview that Draco does NOT become 'good' and does NOT join Harry in the fight against Voldemort.

what a pity!

2 days later:

WHERE IS EVERYONE???????????!!!!!!!!!!!??????????